Can information be alive?

[Moontanman]

Can information be alive? Isn't life at it's most basic, information? A virus is on the edge of being alive and it is just basically chemical information. A living cell is alive due to chemical information being passed both from generation to generation inside the cell as things happen that need to take place to unsure the cell remains alive.

Chemicals pass back and forth, many if not all of those chemicals serve double duty as both chemical energy and as chemical information to make sure that chemical energy is used in the proper manner to do what the cell needs to be done.

Can information be alive? Complex streams of information certainly imitate life inside a computer, virus', Trojan horses, and other programs both reproduce themselves and spread. They also retrieve information and exchange information between computers to make themselves spread and grow in numbers.

Can information be alive? In our society various ideas often seem to have a life of their own but most are limited to certain groups or individuals and seldom reproduce or do anything really complex. But religion is different, it not only grows it spreads from individual to individual and not just via language but with actual physical vectors.

The books that contain the various religious ideas can be used to spread religion. Someone who never heard of a certain religion can pick up a book and be exposed and begin to spread that religion. Religion can evolve, often changing it's dogma to allow it to spread into certain populations where it is at first rejected.

Religion can also develop from one religion into another. The Jewish faith gave rise to both Christianity and Islam. The Jewish faith developed from other religions who merged and split from other religions. Religions often fight to convert or change and even infiltrate other religions.

Like the first life forms religions have merged, split, and evolved into the forms we see today. Some religions that could not compete have fallen by the way side while others have mutated to fill the empty niches left when a religion dies out. Or by crowding out an established religion when the conditions were right much like life mutating to fill ecological niches that were not occupied.

Many religions are like species, some more closely related to others but ultimately all related somewhere back before we can trace them when all religions shared their basic dogmas back and forth more freely than today, much like life.

So can religion be information that is alive?

Does any other information package even approach the sophistication of religion? Does any other information even come close to religion in it's methods of insuring it's own existence? In think religion satisfies all the prerequisites of life. At the very least religion is equal to a virus that lives on human society much like a virus lives on a cell.

[Time_Travel]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

...
Does any other information package even approach the sophistication of religion? Does any other information even come close to religion in it's methods of insuring it's own existence? In think religion satisfies all the prerequisites of life. At the very least religion is equal to a virus that lives on human society much like a virus lives on a cell.

Is there a Religion Gene in humans???

[Boerseun]

Look up Memetics - here's a good primer.

Religion fits the bill very well.

[Time_Travel]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

Look up Memetics - here's a good primer.

Religion fits the bill very well.

Then according to memetics no Religion Gene?

[sman]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Can information be alive? Isn't life at it's most basic, information?

Is life comprised of information? We are sedeuced into thinking that life is made out of nucleic acids, because that is "stuff". It's something, and we're comfortable with that. The fact is, life could just as well be made from anything that could code & copy digital information with comparable fidelity.

Information Theory is what eluded Darwin's original proposal in 1859. Modern Darwinism deals with "replicators", which, as a rule, are genes.

BTW, when I say "Darwinism" - and I've done it in other threads very loosely - I mean Natural Selection and Mendelian Genetics, or what some refer to as Synthetic Darwinism, signifying the synthesis of these two schools. Darwin's theory of evolution is dependant on particulate genetics, or what I think of as Digital heretity, as opposed to some kind of analogue blending of features. This was delivered by Watson-Crick genetics - in the 50s. So you see, everything we think of as modern Biology is dependant of Information Theory.

Here's a video about abovementioned memetics.
Susan Blackmore on memes and "temes" | Video on TED.com

While I am very skiddish accepting memetics, I find myself relying on that language for these kinds of topics. Plus - I just love Susan Blackmore! It is she that, at least in my mind, has championed this new field. Isn't she just a kick-in-the-pants!

[HydrogenBond]

Information is inert. It is the brain that is alive. The brain uses information, like the body uses chemical foods. The chemical glucose is not alive. But it contains chemical potential energy. When the glucose is metabolized by the living cells, it contributes to life. With the brain, when it eats information, it contributes to the life of the mind.

Information, it is food for thought, with some information food more beneficial to life than others. There is information junk food. There is information natural food, information processed foods, information poisons and information medicines. Some information has anti-oxidant capacity and can promote health. Some information clogs the arteries of the mind with bias than can damage the heart (makes one cold). While some can cause genetic disorders which detach the mind from its natural roots. Some information acts like a virus and is passed via the meeting of minds. Some minds create anti-virus to help limit of the impact of viral information.

Some mind food or information is a concentrated energy source, able to drive the brain for days. Other is less energy intensive, like lettuce and comes and goes. Some is all carb or fat and other is pure protein to build stronger mental muscles or mental fitness. Some information contains preservatives, since it would spoil without this. This information is good fresh, but would naturally go into the compost pile in a short. With preservative it can linger longer on the shelf. However, long term use of preservatives can have an impact of mental health.

We can cook information food into all types of recipes. Even road kill can taste good if we prepare it just right. It will still have food value, even if this is not one's ethnic mind food or native information.

We live in the information age. It is like a huge buffet of mental food. Not all is organic or natural.

[Little Bang]

What do you think the human body is, trillions and trillions of bits of information.

[Larv]

Originally Posted by sman

Information Theory is what eluded Darwin's original proposal in 1859. Modern Darwinism deals with "replicators", which, as a rule, are genes.

Information theory, assuming you're talking about Shannon's information theory, would have nothing to contribute to Darwin's original proposal. Shannon's information theory does not address information that is communicated by a system; instead it addresses the information structure of a system. For example, IT would have nothing to say about the kind of information communicated through a telephone system (rumors, stock values, school closures), but it would be able to describe the informative structure of the system in terms of average mutual information, complexity, redundancy, ascendancy, and capacity.

[Experiment Garden]

Originally Posted by Little Bang

What do you think the human body is, trillions and trillions of bits of information.

I agree. A very enlightening movie on this subject is "Trillions - The Future of Computing":

Trillions - The Future of Computing - Experiment Garden

It discusses the history of computer networks and how they have become larger and larger over time. However, all along the human body has already worked out a huge information network. Our atoms are organized into molecules, which are organized into cells, which are organized into tissue, organs, and bodies. Then we in turn organize ourselves into neighborhoods and countries.

It is an amazing system and when you consider how information changes over time and is mixed together it only makes sense to think of it as alive.

[Tekime]

Based on the usual definitions of life which depend on an organic nature, animation, or reproductive capacities, information cannot by definition be alive. If it were, then life would have no meaning. The word, that is.

However, information can possess some of the qualities that we associate with life - not surprising since information is usually created by and expressed through humans.

On that last bit, I think religion will "die" eventually. Unless our planet is doomed to spend eternity half-educated.