How would you colonise space?

[pgrmdave]

How life-friendly are some of the larger moons around the jovian planets?

[BlameTheEx]

Originally Posted by Stargazer

Well, obviously it depends on what modules we're talking about. It's not like I would land the entire ship onto the surface of Mars. That would indeed be difficult. Some modules will be large, of course. A combination of several methods could work, perhaps?

Its not the weight of individual modules that worries me - it is the total. You are trying to land an entire civilisation. Economics is all here, and anything that adds to the weight of the modules bumps up the cost. I do wish you would come to terms with the idea that man's place in space will be decided by accountants.

Originally Posted by Stargazer

You mean huge robots that would catch the modules mid-air and put them down? That sounds interesting indeed. Or how about giant zeppeliner airships as a middle station?

Nope. Airships just wont work on Mars. Airships work on earth because they are lighter than the surrounding air. The atmosphere on mars is so thin it weighs practically nothing. I doubt aircraft of any sort are viable.

[Stargazer]

Originally Posted by pgrmdave

How life-friendly are some of the larger moons around the jovian planets?

I guess it depends. Are you talking about how possible it would be to plant life on them? I think we need to know much more about them first. Genetically modified plantlife could possibly survive on some of them, but I'm not sure at all. Maybe greenhouses would be the best option to grow plants for food and air etc.

[Stargazer]

Originally Posted by BlameTheEx

Its not the weight of individual modules that worries me - it is the total.

Isn't the total mass a problem only if you try to land everything in one piece?

You are trying to land an entire civilisation. Economics is all here, and anything that adds to the weight of the modules bumps up the cost. I do wish you would come to terms with the idea that man's place in space will be decided by accountants.

Ok, but now we're moving onto the economical side of the problem. I thought you meant it was a problem when it came to technology, that is, to actually land the modules on the surface of Mars.

Nope. Airships just wont work on Mars. Airships work on earth because they are lighter than the surrounding air. The atmosphere on mars is so thin it weighs practically nothing. I doubt aircraft of any sort are viable.

Wouldn't it matter how they were constructed? Large helium balloons could work there, isn't it a matter of size and the weight of the material?

[BlameTheEx]

Originally Posted by Stargazer

Wouldn't it matter how they were constructed? Large helium balloons could work there, isn't it a matter of size and the weight of the material?

In theory, yes. However, soft landing parachutes could be constructed out of the same material.

[Tormod]

Originally Posted by pgrmdave

Well, I believe that the first step would be a launch pad on the moon, allowing for better use of fuel.

And where would the fuel for launching stuff to the moon come from? The moon is not exactly full of raw materials for anything. Granted, there may be sources of He3 there but we would need some sort of mining operation to get it out.

I don't see how a lunar base would help in the initial phases. Every single piece of equipment there would come from the Earth aynway so you wouldn't save a thing on launch costs.

[pgrmdave]

Originally Posted by Tormod

Every single piece of equipment there would come from the Earth aynway so you wouldn't save a thing on launch costs.

I hadn't thought about that, but it makes sense.

[lindagarrette]

The Millennial Project by Richard Savage is very informative and feasible. Easy to find and very inexpensive from esellers.

[BlameTheEx]

I want to make something plain. Rockets can't be used to colonise space.

Any viable project to colonise space won't start in earnest for some decades, and won't be finished (in terms of bulk supply from earth) in the next 100 years. Before then the oil will run out. In the unlikely event that it hasn't, we still dare not use it. We will have burned so much that global warming will be a mater of racial survival. How could we create the rocket fuel to deliver thousands of tons of supplies into orbit every year?

Right now rocket power is about as cheap as it is ever going to get. In future hikes in oil prices are going start pushing the price up again.

The future of space is in electricity. Nuclear powered or solar powered. Electromagnetic canon into near earth orbit, and ion drives from that point on.

Furthermore teraforming mars is not the quick or the efficient way of making life better for a few hundred or perhaps few thousand colonists. Mars will have to be colonised as it stands, in much the same way as the moon must. Teraforming will be a matter for their descendants. I do not believe that earth's politicians can hold together a project of such costs over such a long period of time for the benefit of a small foreign population.

[Tormod]

Rocket power will also be balanced out by two things: more efficient engines and lighter alloys.