How would you colonise space?

[whoa182]

Originally Posted by BlameTheEx

Its not the weight of individual modules that worries me - it is the total. You are trying to land an entire civilisation. Economics is all here, and anything that adds to the weight of the modules bumps up the cost. I do wish you would come to terms with the idea that man's place in space will be decided by accountants.




Nope. Airships just wont work on Mars. Airships work on earth because they are lighter than the surrounding air. The atmosphere on mars is so thin it weighs practically nothing. I doubt aircraft of any sort are viable.

http://www.robotbooks.com/Mars-plane.htm

Proposal for Mars Exploration by
Robotic Plane

[whoa182]

We should realy start to think about sending Equipment to mars before we actually get there.

By 20 years time robotics, i believe will have developed far beyond todays capabilities. Both in robotic engineering will have most or all of the abilities of human motion.

Intelligence will be fairly good, I dont think we are certain how far we are going to get with A.I in 20 years, considering the slow pace. Unless we get some sort of breakthrough.
Computer power wont be a problem and will be fairly cheap by then.

Now Robots should be the first colonists, They should do some basic proceedures to setup some sort of structure on mars for the arrival of man, That I feel is the best possible way to make a succesful first mission to mars. Get the the Structures up before we arrive and machines so we can use them.

Hopefuly nanotechnology will have built the Famous Nano Assembler People talk about. Which would replicated and build structures its self. Possibly build a whole city infact ahaha. Since in theory a nano assembler would build anything from atoms. But its still theoretical and we need to prepare for other options.

We know that we will have super strong structures, even by the time we reach the moon.

Carbon nanotubes - can be 100 x stronger than steel and 1/6 the weight, So you can actually life a lot more off of earth itself because the weight will have been reduced dramitcly. nanotech will also help with shielding against radiation. all electronics and sensors will also be highly intergrated into the materials. so that = less weight again.

Im not Sure how advanced we will be by 2020 with things like nano red blood cells. Which, if you were to replace 10% of you're blood with these artificial blood cells you would be able to hold you're breath for 4 hours without the need for oxygen. These nano red blood cells are 100X more efficient than our current red blood cells.

So Nanotech will play a Massive role in space exploration and colonization.
Also biotech might helo to engineer humans to make it a bit easier for them to live on another planet.

[BlameTheEx]

whoa182

Your link is for a proposed mars plane. That is a very different thing from a mars airship. Planes are heavier than air while airships are lighter (or to be pedantic - the same weight).

The problem with planes are rather different - landing. Landing was the topic under discussion. The lower the atmospheric pressure the higher the stalling speed, and hence the landing speed. Landing such a plane will be no joke

On the other hand.… Assuming the supplies came down attached to something that was part parachute and part glider. It would still land with an uncomfortably large velocity, but that velocity could be entirely horizontal. With a smooth landing field you might just have something. The capsules could slide to a stop.

[GAHD]

"These nano red blood cells are 100X more efficient than our current red blood cells."
links? or should 'are' have been 'could be'?

[whoa182]

http://www.foresight.org/Nanomedicine/Respirocytes.html

Thats what they are called " Respriocytes "

Abstract: Molecular manufacturing promises precise control of matter at the atomic and molecular level, allowing the construction of micron-scale machines comprised of nanometer-scale components. Medical nanomachines will be among the earliest applications. The artificial red blood cell or "respirocyte" proposed here is a bloodborne spherical 1-micron diamondoid 1000-atm pressure vessel with active pumping powered by endogenous serum glucose, able to deliver 236 times more oxygen to the tissues per unit volume than natural red cells and to manage carbonic acidity. An onboard nanocomputer and numerous chemical and pressure sensors enable complex device behaviors remotely reprogrammable by the physician via externally applied acoustic signals. Primary applications will include transfusable blood substitution; partial treatment for anemia, perinatal/neonatal and lung disorders; enhancement of cardiovascular/neurovascular procedures, tumor therapies and diagnostics; prevention of asphyxia; artificial breathing; and a variety of sports, veterinary, battlefield and other uses.


http://www.phleschbubble.com/album/respirocyte01.htm heres a movie of the little guys in action haha


more links here
http://www.rodalestore.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10002&storeId=10051&produ ctId=15538&langId=-1

read that there, that book is also a brilliant one

http://nanotech2004.thenewatlantis.com/2004/10/nanomedicine.html

[BlameTheEx]

We could propose the development of any technology we wish. As example, I could propose the mass production of ruby shoes. Just click your heels together 3 times, and your on mars. Impossible? Consider this quote from Arthur C. Clark: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

Then again we could propose that the budget now allocated to defence and/or acts of conspicuous wastage will be transferred to this project. Frankly I have more faith in ruby slippers.

Perhaps the question should be "How would we colonise space with the minimum development of technology, and/or the minimum allocation of resources?"

[maddog]

Originally Posted by pgrmdave

Would it be feasible to colonize the moon?

Yes. With some hardship. As Tormod says, resources on the moon is in short supply.
Permafrost has been found at the poles in some concentration. To build an infrastructure
to process and/or transport reclaimed water from there will not happen at first. So most
supplies would come from Earth. It turns out that the moon would be a great source of
Aluminum. Once a base would be built the mining & geology could commence.

Myself, I would start building a base on the moon though maybe not at first.

The first thing I would consider independent of fuel type is build a larger space station, maybe
3 of them. I would build transport vehicles from Earth to orbit and back. I would start then
construction of vehicles to Mars. Though I would seek paths that either can have a travel
time of about 6 months or so (faster/lighter) that would be higher energy and need more
fuel or take the longer route of 11 months and beef up the shielding. These would likely be
about a 8-12 crew and be coed (less stress). Any ships going would be there about 1-2
years before return.

If a reliable ion propulsion can be made on a budget then farther out is available. Being
able to go to Mercury would be good source of many metals and so a mine would be
good to put there. The environment would be extremely hazardous being so close to the
sun.

Mining the asteroids is my dream (has been since I was a kid). Then there are the outer
moons: Ganeymede, Europa (Jupiter), Titan (Saturn). By 2050 if we kill ourselves by
sheer stupidity, no SF movie has done justice to what we could really accomplish.

Kewl, huh !

Maddog

[pgrmdave]

I think we might be thinking about this the wrong way. We are thinking like scientists, we should be thinking like businessmen. If we were serious about colonizing space, we would need to make it lucrative in some way. Like aluminum on the moon, or space hotels, anything that could generate profit. Only once that happens will space be colonized.

[Stargazer]

Originally Posted by whoa182

Now Robots should be the first colonists, They should do some basic proceedures to setup some sort of structure on mars for the arrival of man, That I feel is the best possible way to make a succesful first mission to mars. Get the the Structures up before we arrive and machines so we can use them.

I think many proposals include this as well. I think it's a great idea to get the modules and equipment there and up and running before we're going there ourselves. If something fails on Mars while the colonists are on their way, they will know it will before they land, and could possibly fix it when they arrive.
Regarding nanotechnology it is no doubt very fascinating, but I'm not sure how far along we will be within a few centuries. It could hold promise though.

[Stargazer]

Originally Posted by maddog

Myself, I would start building a base on the moon though maybe not at first.

The first thing I would consider independent of fuel type is build a larger space station, maybe
3 of them. I would build transport vehicles from Earth to orbit and back. I would start then
construction of vehicles to Mars.

A good idea to construct the groundwork, the infrastructure that will make the rest easier. I think that industries in orbit will be necessary.

Mining the asteroids is my dream (has been since I was a kid). Then there are the outer moons: Ganeymede, Europa (Jupiter), Titan (Saturn). By 2050 if we kill ourselves by sheer stupidity, no SF movie has done justice to what we could really accomplish.

This is in my list of what could be done to colonise the solar system as well. The asteroids should be mined automatically, and the raw materials could be sent to any industrial facility in the solar system, at least the inner solar system. Ganymede seems a good candidate for an outpost, but also Callisto.

I don't think we will kill ourselves, we've had the capacity for quite some time and we never used it... to that extent anyway. We could fall back into a dark age again though.