New idea about UFO's!

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Please tell me point for point how I have misrepresented what you are saying. I am a reassonable man and quick to admit my mistakes but I don't see it that way in this case. Show me different and I'll apologize. but don't expect me to believe you are correct just because you say so. I have countered every point you made, please do me the same with out simply telling me I am wrong.

You cannot teach a caveman to be better at being a caveman. anymore than an alien is going to teach you how to be a better human.

An advanced race of aliens would however know this simple fact.

This below correct, but is not relevant to my point.

I beg to disagree, primitive humans would more than capable of learning new things, that is how we got to where we are. civilization didn't just start because humans suddenly got smart a few thousand years ago. it really start fifty thousand or more years ago. a phase change did occur but a great deal of tiny steps were necessary before we could capitalize on that change. A human "caveman" and suspect an Neanderthal "caveman" as well could be taught many things if you started simple with concepts he understood. A stone age hunter gatherer could easily be taught farming as long as you didn't insist he start out with the type of complex farming we do today. he could be taught to smelt and use metals. once you had these things to build on in just a few generations he could be taught to build houses out of native materials, taught to domesticate animals, taught the importance of cleanliness, to build cities. No you couldn't teach one individual these things anymore than I could be taught to colonize space but these things would be with in the grasp of his comprehension if taught slowly in incremental steps.

[Thunderbird]

Integration is the road to extinction, no tecnological civilization can survive if it cannot expand. The Earth will not support us indefinitly. No matter how hard we try the Earth will die under our load. Fast, slow or in between the trend is always down. We are already using the last of the resources that can be had with out totally destroying the planet. Population does nothing but go up, even if the industrial nations stop their population climb the third world is increasing it's population exponentially. Orbiting colonies are the only way the human race can expand in a reasonable amount of time. Magnetic sails and nuclear power are current technology taken to a reasonable level. Super human mental powers are fantasy

You have given perfect discription of a metastasizing cancer cell, not evolution.

Evolution are cycles of diversity and integration.

[Ahmabeliever]

I'm following both sides here and you are both lucid, perhaps not to each other?

Teaching cavemen, come on, I am teachable, you are teachable... cavemen are teachable. One step at a time, that's how we climb mountains, teach children, colonise the universe.

I'm for the evolution of mankind, integration, AND exploration. I can see no alternative unless Jesus comes back to save us all. My money's on space colonisation.

Let's say we can build giant tubes in space. I'm betting we can, I use as an example the space station. This is not what we want but there it is, in space and in orbit. If we were to add an ecosystem to this, we would have the initial, but very rough, prototype for living in space.

What do we need.

Energy - Solar and nuclear, between stars solar energy is bound to suck.
Water - Recycled, and replenished from space.
Nutrition - Recirculating zero waste aquaponic gardens, hell, even I can make these. Protein and veg.
Air - Use the gardens and trees to produce oxygen.
Err, I think that's it for requirements to keep humans alive. Of course, we need to supply these things inside a ship.

So you put 10 000 people in a pod. That population can only breed at rate of 1 child per death. All the nutrients and water and air are recycled in an on ship eco system that provides nutrition, oxygen, and water purification.

The biggest problem I foresee living in space is cabin fever. Thing is, humans adjust to all sorts of environments, space is merely another one.

We could make eden in space, or a sh**hole.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Ahmabeliever

I'm following both sides here and you are both lucid, perhaps not to each other?

Teaching cavemen, come on, I am teachable, you are teachable... cavemen are teachable. One step at a time, that's how we climb mountains, teach children, colonise the universe.

I'm for the evolution of mankind, integration, AND exploration. I can see no alternative unless Jesus comes back to save us all. My money's on space colonisation.

Let's say we can build giant tubes in space. I'm betting we can, I use as an example the space station. This is not what we want but there it is, in space and in orbit. If we were to add an ecosystem to this, we would have the initial, but very rough, prototype for living in space.

What do we need.

Energy - Solar and nuclear, between stars solar energy is bound to suck.
Water - Recycled, and replenished from space.
Nutrition - Recirculating zero waste aquaponic gardens, hell, even I can make these. Protein and veg.
Air - Use the gardens and trees to produce oxygen.
Err, I think that's it for requirements to keep humans alive. Of course, we need to supply these things inside a ship.

So you put 10 000 people in a pod. That population can only breed at rate of 1 child per death. All the nutrients and water and air are recycled in an on ship eco system that provides nutrition, oxygen, and water purification.

The biggest problem I foresee living in space is cabin fever. Thing is, humans adjust to all sorts of environments, space is merely another one.

We could make eden in space, or a sh**hole.

It depends on how big you make it, depending on how much gravity is required to keep humans healthy and the strenth of matrials. I envision a torus miles across and miles thick. you spin it to obtian the right gravity and live on the inside surface. You light the inside surface with fiber optics, funneling sunlight into the interior and the interior becomes forests lakes even rivers. You could even have several layers with humans living inside in large areas that with optical effects would seem to be outside under the sun. It would be built like a endless suspension bridge with the support cables wraping around the outside. It's size would be limited only by the strenth of available materials. Carbon micro tubes spin into cables should allow it to be of significant size. such a colony say six mile across and two miles thick, like a pudgy donut, should be able to support several thousand humans in great comfort. this shape would also make sense for magnetic sails.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

You have given perfect discription of a metastasizing cancer cell, not evolution.

Evolution are cycles of diversity and integration.

that's exactly what humans have become in relation to the earth's ecosystem. No amount of control will change this. Eventually the earth will become uninhabitable no matter what we do, it would be much better for us to leave teh Earth fallow long before this happens. We don't own the earth there are other inhabitants we share it with. we should leave and give them a chance. If we wait too long things will degrade to teh point that we will not be able to leave and we will go down like all other species before us.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

You cannot teach a caveman to be better at being a caveman. anymore than an alien is going to teach you how to be a better human.

An advanced race of aliens would however know this simple fact.

This below correct, but is not relevant to my point.

Cavemen as you call them were just as human as we are and had just as much potintial. To say they were some how inferior and not able to learn as we do is simply wrong.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

You cannot teach a caveman to be better at being a caveman. anymore than an alien is going to teach you how to be a better human.

An advanced race of aliens would however know this simple fact.

This below correct, but is not relevant to my point.

I wouldn't want to teach them to be a better cave man, I would want to teach them to better their situation. they were already doing the best they could with the accumulated knowledge they had up to that point.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by Ahmabeliever

I'm following both sides here and you are both lucid, perhaps not to each other?

Teaching cavemen, come on, I am teachable, you are teachable... cavemen are teachable. One step at a time, that's how we climb mountains, teach children, colonise the universe.

Who said a cave man was not teachable ?

Originally Posted by Ahmabeliever

I'm for the evolution of mankind, integration, AND exploration. I can see no alternative unless Jesus comes back to save us all. My money's on space colonisation.

Let's say we can build giant tubes in space. I'm betting we can, I use as an example the space station. This is not what we want but there it is, in space and in orbit. If we were to add an ecosystem to this, we would have the initial, but very rough, prototype for living in space.

What do we need.

Energy - Solar and nuclear, between stars solar energy is bound to suck.
Water - Recycled, and replenished from space.
Nutrition - Recirculating zero waste aquaponic gardens, hell, even I can make these. Protein and veg.
Air - Use the gardens and trees to produce oxygen.
Err, I think that's it for requirements to keep humans alive. Of course, we need to supply these things inside a ship.

So you put 10 000 people in a pod. That population can only breed at rate of 1 child per death. All the nutrients and water and air are recycled in an on ship eco system that provides nutrition, oxygen, and water purification.

The biggest problem I foresee living in space is cabin fever. Thing is, humans adjust to all sorts of environments, space is merely another one.

We could make eden in space, or a sh**hole.

Maybe part of mankind will evolve to live in cans in a lifeless vacume, just not me. I need my beloved earth and I will try to make it into an eden.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird
You cannot teach a caveman to be better at being a caveman. anymore than an alien is going to teach you how to be a better human.

An advanced race of aliens would however know this simple fact.

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Cavemen as you call them were just as human as we are and had just as much potintial. To say they were some how inferior and not able to learn as we do is simply wrong.

You.... cannot..... teach...... a caveman........ to be better..... at...... being a.......... caveman

How in any way does what your saying have anything at to do with what I said.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Who said a cave man was not teachable ?




Maybe part of mankind will evolve to live in cans in a lifeless vacume, just not me. I need my beloved earth and I will try to make it into an eden.

You have eyes but you will not see, cans in a vacuum, I wouldn't do that either but a colony like I discribed would be like a little chunk of Earth in the sky. As for who said cave men couldn't learn, you did. I hope you do turn the Earth into an eden, just remember eden only had two people in it. Now none of this has anything to do with the thread topic.

If UFO's were already inside our solar system using O'Neil type colonies many of the things we use to deny the possibility that UFO are aeins space craft would not be applicable. How could we find them if they are using our solar system?