Colonizing Mars

[Moontanman]

Your Moon base idea has a major flaw, no water on the moon, other than that it's a great idea. a base on an asteroid would be a better idea, asteroids have water, some of them in huge volumes, as well as metals and other raw materials. so asteroid mining is really better than moon mining.

Of course as many here know I think colonizing Mars or any other planet is probably a lost cause but lets continue on anyway. As far as the radiation problem, without a much more significant atmosphere any long term colony would have to be either under ground or under a layer of some sort of protection, dirt? water? A localized and very strong magnetic field would help. Mars has too much atmosphere to allow a strong positive charge. As I see it the best bet would be to increase the atmosphere in some way.

[Eclipse Now]

(To moderators.... Woah, see, now this conversation has gone back to teraforming Mars! Can we just put this back into the main Mars thread and call it "Living on Mars?" And maybe strip out the 10 pages of Panspermia "Death from space bugs" stuff and rename that bit?)

So in your opinion, atmosphere would do the trick and act as a "good enough" radiation shield?

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Eclipse Now

(To moderators.... Woah, see, now this conversation has gone back to teraforming Mars! Can we just put this back into the main Mars thread and call it "Living on Mars?" And maybe strip out the 10 pages of Panspermia "Death from space bugs" stuff and rename that bit?)

I agree, it's difficult to conceive of colonizing Mars without at least starting to terraform it but initially the colony would have to under a layer of soil at least.

So in your opinion, atmosphere would do the trick and act as a "good enough" radiation shield?

Yes in my opinion but we have been looking at this for a very short period of time, there could be ramifications to not having a magnetic field we are unaware of and creating an atmosphere is a great idea but how do you do it? How long does it take? Underground would seem to be the best short term answer. to add to this I'm not sure how much radiation in the form of charged particles would reach the ground on Mars now? Are other forms of radiation more important? (or more dangerous?)

[Pyrotex]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

How about Nuclear light bulb propulsion? BRUCE BEHRHORST ARTICLE LIST Most of the radiation from the sun is in the form of charged particles, this can be shielded in varying degrees by using a magnetic field or a by giving the space craft an intense positive charge....

I'm sorry, but that dog just won't hunt. The magnetic field required would be gifreakinormous. Like several hundred tons of cryogenic magnets and pumps, not even to mention a nuclear reactor even heavier than that. Sure, it could be done, theoretically, but practically speaking, it's not something we could do in100 years.

[Moontanman]

Aren't we talking about in theory here? Most of these dogs we're talking about won't hunt now but hey a hundred years ago even they said a heavier than air craft was impossible due to the extreme weight of the engine required. Things change, more than likely the real solution will be something we haven't given much of a chance now.

[Eclipse Now]

KSR postulated that the whole thing would start in around 50 years, and then take only 150 years. His trilogy has characters that start the settlement and then due to a "gene spell checker" live extraordinarily long lives and get to see a Mars that is breathable. (With a tiny bit of genetic tinkering with the humans living on Mars, taking on some kind of crocodile Gene that allows humans to process oxygen and deal with Co2 more efficiently somehow).

His work delves into ecological and sociological themes regularly, and many of his novels appear to be the direct result of his own scientific fascinations, such as the 15 years of research and lifelong fascination with Mars, which culminated in his most famous work. Because of his fascination with that planet, he became a member of the Mars Society.

Robinson's work has been labeled by reviewers as literary science fiction.

Robinson will be an instructor at the Clarion Workshop in 2009. In 2010, Robinson will be the guest of honor at the 68th World Science Fiction Convention, which will be held in Melbourne, Australia.[1]

It deals a lot with corporations getting up to strange business, such as creating that giant solar powered magnifying glass that floats around in the upper atmosphere, frying the regolith to release mass into the atmosphere, and of course the robot powered asteroids that take 10 or 20 years to smash into Mars' atmosphere. He also seems very optimistic about the quantity of water on Mars that could be released as it warms up, and this of course having an effect on the atmosphere as well.

[Eclipse Now]

OK here's an out there left of field idea for our nano-engineers to consider in their sci-fi brainstorming sessions.... (for nano-tech 50 years down the track).

If radiation is the problem, and atmosphere is the solution, then let's wrap the planet in glad wrap! Think it through with me...

With nano-materials evolving the way it is, what about some kind of super-light sticky nano-glue that both floated on air AND yet somehow formed a barrier for the atmosphere? it would have to be self-healing after the thousands of micro-meteorite strikes each day, so I'm imagining something that is semi-permeable but thick enough to stop ALL the atmosphere constantly being teased away as fast by the solar rays? Would such a thing be **possible** with nano-tech down the track? How would it be suspended, giant air-balloons & carbon nano-tube strings? How would it self heal? Would it be semi-organic and the balloons contain some growth medium that reacts with sunlight? Would this artificial "skin" to the atmosphere be lower than a normal Mars atmosphere would have been, enabling more air pressure with less atmospheric mass, also making the job of creating all that atmosphere less arduous?

D'oh! How will rockets launch? They'll tear a hole in this stuff... but then it re-heals? High flying planes might not be able to fly so high?

Of course, the same stuff would probably have been used in Martian air-tent colonies and agricultural zones down at the surface level, especially if this new super material had some radiation deflecting properties we've not yet imagined. Just dreaming.... but flight and microwave ovens were once dreams as well.

Someone had to bake the first Pizza. Who would have guessed that it would soon become the backbone of Western civilisation? (I'm on a diet... nearly every conversation leads to food.)

[Pyrotex]

I just remembered something.
We all know about superconductors, resistance goes to zero at temperatures near 0 Kelvins.
Have you heard about superresistance? Resistance goes to infinity at temps near 0 Kelvins.
I'm wondering what affect a superresistant barrier would have to radiation... Hmmm...

I believe Larry Niven had a neat idea for terraforming Mars. Drill a hole down into the caldera of Olympus Mons. Insert a mega-ton class nuke down the hole. Back away at least 100 km and pop the nuke.

[Eclipse Now]

But isn't Mars geologically dead? There's nothing to activate, no volcano to erupt. Also, wasn't Mons not actually a "normal" volcano but a planetary reaction to a deep impact asteroid strike? Isn't it where all the excess subsurface heat and pressure went after a rather large event of that nature? That's what I remember reading quite some time ago, but the theory may have been cast out in the light of new data.

[Titas Aduksus]

Terraforming Mars is just not going to happen, we can't even keep the earth terraformed at the moment! colonizing Mars is possible but ONLY if it is done the way I laid out above, it can be done using mostly robotics, there's no argument, you know it makes sense!