Aliens Poll

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Yes! What is this now three or four astronauts that say we have had contact with aliens? I am beginning to think maybe there really is a government cover up. I mean if you can trust a trained astronaut Dr. then who can you trust? It's difficult to think these guys would lie about it.... isn't it? Damn, so much confusion I'm not I'd believe the evening news if they had live footage of a alien space craft on the white house lawn then again maybe that's what the governemnt wants, for us to be unable to believe.

I heard a radio interview replay last night with this guy; have you heard of him or his book? Very knowledgable & well connected.

Originally Posted by Timothy Good

UFOs remain a key military and intelligence problem – one demanding unprecedented security and deception. Access to information is on a strictly ‘need to know’ basis. In 1960, former CIA director Admiral Hillenkoetter confirmed that, ‘Behind the scenes, highranking Air Force officers are soberly concerned about the UFOs. But through official secrecy and ridicule, many citizens are led to believe the unknown flying objects are nonsense.’ The same is still true today.
...
'UFOS ARE AS REAL AS THE AIRPLANES THAT FLY
OVER YOUR HEAD . . . THE CLASSIFICATION WAS,
FROM THE OUTSET, ABOVE TOP SECRET, SO THE VAST
MAJORITY OF U.S. OFFICIALS AND POLITICIANS, LET
ALONE A MERE ALLIED MINISTER OF DEFENCE, WERE
NEVER IN THE LOOP . . . THE TIME HAS COME TO LIFT
THE VEIL OF SECRECY AND LET THE TRUTH EMERGE
SO THERE CAN BE A REAL AND INFORMED DEBATE
ABOUT ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT PROBLEMS
FACING OUR PLANET TODAY'

Paul Hellyer, former Canadian Minister of
Defence (1963–7) in a speech at the University
of Toronto, 25 September 2005

Timothy Good - Notices

[CraigD]

Like several UFOologists, Timothy Good has a history of the sources he quotes in his books disavowing the statements he attributes to them. Paul Hellyer, doesn’t appear to be one of these: though I’ve seen no claim by him to have actually seen an alien or alien spacecraft, he’s professed strong belief in them for at least the last 40 years. I don’t think he did when he was a defense minister under Lester Pearson (1963-68) though he might have – 6/3/1967 he inaugurated a UFO landing pad in St. Paul

His main arguments these days seems to focus on fears that the US – the Bush administration in particular – will start an intergalactic war by building military bases on the Moon, and possibly shooting at UFOs:

"The United States military are preparing weapons which could be used against the aliens, and they could get us into an intergalactic war without us ever having any warning. He stated, "The Bush administration has finally agreed to let the military build a forward base on the moon, which will put them in a better position to keep track of the goings and comings of the visitors from space, and to shoot at them, if they so decide."

(Former Canadian Minister Of Defence Asks Canadian Parliament Asked To Hold Hearings On Relations With Alien "Et" Civilizations)

While I’m the first to acknowledge the Bush administration’s propensity for getting us into wars, I don’t find Hellyer or Good credible.

[Eclogite]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Then there is the whole exactly what DNA bases do they use, there are more than 20 possibilities, we only use four.

I am not a biochemist, but this just sounds wrong. The four bases are adenine, cytosine, guanine, and thymine. Uracil is used in RNA. What are the other fifteen bases?

[nutronjon]

Amusing, there is more acceptence of aliens than God. I haven't read the whole thread, but the post I did read are polite and not the attacks the occur when a person speaks of God.

A person who speaks of aliens is

I heard a radio interview replay last night with this guy; have you heard of him or his book? Very knowledgable & well connected

But a person who speaks of philosophical concepts of God, is attacked and penalized for preaching.

To each his own said the lady as she kissed the cow.

[Thunderbird]

I have always found these types of statements and questions presumptive “Do you believe in U f O‘s ?” “ Do you believe in God ? “UFO’s are real” “God is real” First off UFO stands for unidentified flying object, so do I believe people see things they cannot identify ?..... of course. Does this mean that they are extraterrestrials visiting earth ? I do not have any evidence to make that leap in logic. If someone has an experience that they feel is a spiritual one from outside of the self, and then conclude that it is direct evidence of an all powerful universal being, this is also the same kind of leap in logic. Why not speak of these things for what they are, unknowns, and leave it at that and focus on what we do know instead.

BTW my cousin worked at area 51 and even though he is very closed mouthed about what went on. I do know that he worked on weapon systems, not aliens.

[Boerseun]

Nutron, I don't really understand your problem with this.

Considering the existence of aliens based on our knowledge of the only known planet harbouring life is entirely credible. Scientific principles and natural forces hold true all over the universe. Those same principles and forces led to our existence. In a similar planet, there's no reason to believe that it won't lead to life. At the very least, discussing possible alien life gives valuable insight into local Earthlife.

The "philosophical" God you want to derail this thread with, is a totally different concept. There is no known natural law or process or principle that will lead to the existence of this extraordinary being you propose. And we can't assume or even consider the existence of Gods anywhere else in the universe based on our current knowledge, because currently, empirically, we know of none so far.

I don't know (and don't really care anymore) if you understand this, but the difference between considering possible aliens and possible gods is so vast and far removed that there's no comparison.

The one is POSSIBLE given our current understanding of the universe, the other NOT.

So get over it.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

Nutron, I don't really understand your problem with this.

Considering the existence of aliens based on our knowledge of the only known planet harbouring life is entirely credible. Scientific principles and natural forces hold true all over the universe. Those same principles and forces led to our existence. In a similar planet, there's no reason to believe that it won't lead to life. At the very least, discussing possible alien life gives valuable insight into local Earthlife.

The "philosophical" God you want to derail this thread with, is a totally different concept. There is no known natural law or process or principle that will lead to the existence of this extraordinary being you propose. And we can't assume or even consider the existence of Gods anywhere else in the universe based on our current knowledge, because currently, empirically, we know of none so far.

I don't know (and don't really care anymore) if you understand this, but the difference between considering possible aliens and possible gods is so vast and far removed that there's no comparison.

The one is POSSIBLE given our current understanding of the universe, the other NOT.

So get over it.

Getting back to the subject of the thread. What I have difficulty is in the connection of "UFO" with extraterrestrials. From the evidence we have I would say the universe is full of life. I do not see this has anything to do with seeing things in the sky, or even stories of abduction, has anything to do with aliens from another planet. We have no idea about what form highly evolved life from another world would be like. I think we are projecting are own views about technology and space travel and weaving it into a mythology.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Eclogite

I am not a biochemist, but this just sounds wrong. The four bases are adenine, cytosine, guanine, and thymine. Uracil is used in RNA. What are the other fifteen bases?

In the following link you will find that the scientists looked at more than 3600 bases to find a new base pair that would work with our type of life's cellular machinery. Different DNA might require new cellular machinery but it's doesn't mean our four are the only four or even the most likely four.

Artificial letters added to life's alphabet - tech - 30 January 2008 - New Scientist Tech

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Getting back to the subject of the thread. What I have difficulty is in the connection of "UFO" with extraterrestrials. From the evidence we have I would say the universe is full of life. I do not see this has anything to do with seeing things in the sky, or even stories of abduction, has anything to do with aliens from another planet. We have no idea about what form highly evolved life from another world would be like. I think we are projecting are own views about technology and space travel and weaving it into a mythology.

I have to agree that what you say is very much possible. I have often wondered why UFOs seem to project our own future technology and why the aliens seem to look like us. In the late 19th century there were several UFO sightings and the UFOs were described as being blimps than had to throw down an anchor to stop and other wise operated like some sort of sky version of a sailing ship. At the time blimps were being designed but their descriptions were often less than accurate and usually followed the idea of blimps somehow being similar to sailing ships. It seems more than little suggestive that the reports may have been inspired by what the people thought some future technology might look like.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Getting back to the subject of the thread. What I have difficulty is in the connection of "UFO" with extraterrestrials. From the evidence we have I would say the universe is full of life. I do not see this has anything to do with seeing things in the sky, or even stories of abduction, has anything to do with aliens from another planet. We have no idea about what form highly evolved life from another world would be like. I think we are projecting are own views about technology and space travel and weaving it into a mythology.

The prime connection I believe, and the one that Mitchell referred to, is the crash at Roswell New Mexico in 1947. As time has passed, the people who were there and or otherwise involved officially have aged, retired, and started talking. Roswell's a subject of such great complexity, that I think it is too broad & deep for this thread.

Here's something from the casebook: >> 1952 Washington D.C. Sightings, UFO Casebook Files

Of course, with our oldest human stories telling of gods & angels from the skys, we're pretty well primed for the idea I'd say. We turtles enjoy hearing your fanciful myths as we let you ride atop our backs.