UFO!

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou
has anyone one heard of "rods" or something like that? (something like "flying stick")

i saw a video on it. it says that it is a unkown creature with super fast speed. it lives in some wild places... lots of pictures and videos are taken.

You really like this stuff don't you Tim? Let's face it, these kind of things are exciting, especially to people that have no other excitment in their lives. UFO's ESP, Big Foot, remote viewing, angels, dead peoplpe walking around, rabbits that lay color checken eggs, magic areas that swallow planes and boats, water that runs up hill. ...

Then you get some asshole that comes along and wants to ruin all the fun. That doesn't just accept all these stories. That wants to evaluate such things as facts and evidence before jumping to conclusions. Trouble maker, spoil sport.

Yet there is plenty of proof out there. All kinds of books to prove all kinds of things. The magic power of the pyramid shape, how it keeps food fresh and sharpens razor blades. How certain minerals have special powers when you place them in special places on or around your body.

i remember it says that these "creatures" are found in a movie! forgot the name, it was found in a part of that movie in slow motion. these creatures are so fast that even in video, it is like a flash, but when people play it in super slow motion, its image appears very unclearly...

I went to your web sites. I viewed the videos and read the reports. Can I state that this is a;; bpgus? Nope, never heard of it before and have no factual stance on it. I do know that the info from the sites is far from convincing. It mainly shows how little these people know about how video equipment works for one thing. They also show how much people will get behind something when it makes no sense and has no real support for it.

Do we really think there are creatures that fly faster than the human eye can EVER see? That violate numerous laws of physics and biology? And these things have obviously existed for a long long time and only ONE has ever been captured, even if only for seconds? That there is not a single dead body left behind anywhere ever, but enough of them exists that there are all kinds of picts of them, if we just look at the picts special ways?

roswellrods.com If that doesn't give it away, I don't know what would. I mean Roswell? Talk about bogus hocus pocus ...

"At first he thought they were insects flying close to the video camera. After a number of tests he found out they were not insects."

But where are the tests? I did not see anything on the site that would past as a TEST.

"...Bush or Clinton... They are the ones that are keeping the UFO phenomenon under a tight lid, keeping you in the fog as they say. "

And if you follow the links on this site, you find that even if rods are real, this guy is in bad need of repeaping finacicial success from them. You'll buy his tapes, books, seminars, fund his cable TV network ... I would even wonder how much this guy believes his own stuff. Or des he realize that there IS a market out there for this stuff. And the market is fairly uncritical in their acceptance. Some percentage of the world pop is just going to buy into it and he can make some money off of it.

And he does have 20 years of experience in video production. easy to make a dvd to sell.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou
has anyone one heard of "rods" or something like that? (something like "flying stick")

i saw a video on it. it says that it is a unkown creature with super fast speed. it lives in some wild places... lots of pictures and videos are taken.

http://www.tracieaustin.com/viewspecificpastshow.asp?ID=27

Now this is a real operation here! This is what is known as a Public Access show. Local cable systems are usually required in the contract they have with the local city, to provide equipment and channels for local people to produce their own TV shows. Hardware and training is provided free of charge to any local resident that asks. It is something the Cable system providers offer as an incentive to allow the local monopoly that Cable TV is. I have been the Pres of a local Cable System's LA operation. Acting as the official rep to the local city gov. I also have designed and supplied a number of Cable systems Public Access facilities. I was involved with some early Cable Network programing, such as a program that has some National attention, on PBS I think now, called "Sewing With Nancy".

All this to explain why I would know what kind of people do these shows. It is where the informercial comes from. Pick a particular subject catagory and get some people to pay you to do a segment for them. Maybe it's sewing, maybe it's painting, maybe it paranormal activites. You get access to some moderately good production equipment and an automatice audiance in the local cable reach. Then you are free to market the productions outside it.

"Let's Talk...Paranormal was created in late 2002,and to date has produced 26 shows. I decided to produce and host the show because of my own interest and experiences with the subject since 1987.

The show can be seen in Santa Clarita Valley, CA, on Mondays at 10pm channel 20, and a repeated show on Wednesdays at 5pm."

I checked and indeed channel 20 is the Public Access channel. Roughly one every two months. They are also hoping some sensationaism will break out of the lower levels of society and hit the mainstream. Look at what it did for Art Bell. (Or Rush Limbaugh). These peolpe will bargin and horse trade anything they can get close to. Sets, clothes, hardware, transportation,.... More power to them I guess?

They just are not CREDIBLE sources. IF this is the best we can come up with for these completely fantastic creatures, I have to hold any acceptance at all till some CREDIBLE source gives me reason to.

Back to that discussion on funding of science. Can you imagine how much funding someone could get if they actually discovered some incredible unknown creature livng here with us? Why would any research scientists in his or her right mind turn down something they though had potential credibility. And what logical reason could they give for wanting to hide it. Where is the gain to anyone in doing that?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Louhere is a website that claims to explain everything about rods, take a look on the other side:
http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0001.htm#7

This was an interesting site. I thought at first they were trying to build support for the rods thing. But it didn't really seem in either direction in some places.

Then while wondering around the site, I found this statement:

"The intent of the Reasonable Person's Guide to Strange Ideas is to promote science and critical thinking on an Internet full of nutty fringe ideas. See our RODS article regarding another Art Bell guest. Now, just for fun, stretch your imagination ... around the HOLLOW EARTH."

http://www.xenophilia.com/zb/zb0008.htm

Now Tim, what do YOU think of this rods thing?

[Tim_Lou]

well, i dont really have an opinion... but...

anyway, it is interest to see both sides of a fact. i saw the whole video as i said before. it says that professionals exam it and find that the "creatures" are moving so fast, and having a abnormal size from bugs. also, i cannot be a bird due to the way it flies and the speed of it... however, as everyone knows, videos can be made up easily... but freethinker bought up a good point, is that he is making money out of it. if he is truely going for a new discovery, he should bring all the videos to the internet and let people exam it closely.
another point is that, like 3 years after i saw the video, all the pictures and videos ARE THE SAME!!! nothing is new! this freaks me out...

anyway, my point is to see you guys' opinions of it.
the point of bring up rods is that rods are also a type of "UFOs".
well, this topic is open to all sort of things about ufos, anyone has something else to say?

[Tim_Lou]

let me bought up something else, have you guys ever heard of like huge marks on farms and fields? (crop circles i guess)

they are made of bent grass or stuffs on the ground, extreme geometric and organized pictures are made. some new geometry theories are created out of them


2 ppl claim to have made these huge "marks" and it is wildly accepted.
but there are ove thousands of them around the world! every day, lots of new marks are creates all around the world everyday! how is it possible for 2 people to go around the world? or organize a huge international group to creates these marks?

i will do some little research on this....im not so sure about my informations provided above.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou
well, i dont really have an opinion... but...

Awe come on Tim. Step up to the plate. State your opinion and give us a little explanation as to why.

anyway, it is interest to see both sides of a fact.

What we are trying to determine is whether this IS a fact or not. We are not seeing two sides of a fact. We are seeing to approaches at determining fact.

One side is some old very limited images from what I can tell, from one source. They claim other sources, but you can not find them anywhere. And as you said, they have done nothing in the years since you first looked into it. He's got his fottage in the can, the show and dvd are made. He's not in it for research, he's in it to sell dvd's.

The other side is taking a logical scientific look at it. What data do they have to support their claims. Does it seem credible? (NO!) Are the sources verifyable and credible? (NO again) is there ANY lab type (or even serious field) research for it? (NO once more) Is there ONE SINGLE CREDIBLE INDEPENDANT WITNESS (NOPE!)?

What more do you need to help you have an opinion?

i saw the whole video as i said before. it says that professionals exam it

Ah yes, them ever so over used professionals. What are their names? What are there credentials? Or do we find it is just a claim made with no facts provided behind it?

and find that the "creatures"

We don;t know that they exist

are moving so fast, and having a abnormal size from bugs.

we can not know what size and therefore what speed. No parrallax view. Only assumptions of what it might be based on very poor source materials.

anyway, my point is to see you guys' opinions of it.

then it is only fair that you give us yours.

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou
let me bought up something else, have you guys ever heard of like huge marks on farms and fields? (crop circles i guess)

2 ppl claim to have made these huge "marks" and it is wildly accepted.

Not only claim, but actually showed how they did it and provided details to prove it was them. And then yes, once the technique was out, lots of copy cats.

But let's go past the pretty pictures and neat movie scripts.

Have you given any thought as to why some advanced civilization, and let's face it if they got here they are VERY advanced, would want to push our crops over in pretty patterns?

Obviously it would not be visible from very far away. It sure woud not act as a signaling system. There is no energy based transmission system (radio/ TV/...) that uses wheat or corn.

If they wanted to come and go unnoticed, as the UFOers like to claim, why make such obvious indicators? Foolish idea.

What is left> What possible value would they serve?

And we don't need "aliens work in mysterious ways" here! :-)

[Tim_Lou]

ok here:
http://www.lovely.clara.net/biophysical.html
it shows the impossibility that humans CANNOT have created these crazy crops circles!
they crops are NOT JUST BENT but change in chemical structures! no one could possibily have done it world wildly.

it is claimed that 2 people have done the jobs:
http://www.csicop.org/hoaxwatch/cropcircles.html
but how is it possible that the chemical structures change?

[Freethinker]

Originally posted by: Tim_Lou
ok here:

http://www.lovely.clara.net/biophysical.html

it shows the impossibility that humans CANNOT have created these crazy crops circles!

they crops are NOT JUST BENT but change in chemical structures! no one could possibily have done it world wildly.

it is claimed that 2 people have done the jobs:

http://www.csicop.org/hoaxwatch/cropcircles.html

but how is it possible that the chemical structures change?

Tim, Tim, Tim... You really need to try to evalute and report on these rather than just tossing them out like this. It is great practice.

But let's do this for you one more time. Next time it is YOUR job to research and report rather than uncritically spew this stuff. I know it is "neat" stuff. But try to be at least a little critical.

let start with:

http://www.lovely.clara.net/biophysical.html

This is a "Serious research on crop circles" site. How do we know this? They say so! So it MUST be true, RIGHT?

And the specific article from this URL. How do we check it for validity? One method I use is to check the credentials of listed "authorities". I started with "Dr. W. C. Levengood is a respected biophysicist". My first interest is WHO is Dr. W. C. Levengood, what makes him a "respected biophysicist", by whom? So I did a Google on him. So far I can not find anything about him outside of Crop Circle sites. So it would seem the ONLY place that he is 'respected" by is those that want crop circles to be some extra-natural event. Oh ya, that and cattle mutilation sites. This guy likes sensationalistic issues. Not that that is neccesarily a bad thing, but it does raise some flags.

In searching for his credentials, I came across an interesting site. It is based on reports done under the aspecies of Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, a very highly regarded research institute. Part of this site is a discussion with a John A. Burke who released a report with Dr. W. C. Levengood (``Dr W.C. Levengood, John A. Burke, Lab Report No 18, the FE3 Project and the H-Glaze Report'')

One of the issues addressed was the claim you list:

they crops are NOT JUST BENT but change in chemical structures!

But when directly questioned about this claim, the author finds that

"Two things struck me most about John Burke: the strength of his desire to believe that crop circles were something other then hoaxers, and the inconsistency of his methods and procedures. The first is evident from his claim that 90% of all crop circles are ``real'' in the sense of not made by people. He states this even when showing pictures of crop formations that are obviously meant to look like something, such as spiders, scorpions, wheel chairs and Micky Mouse (I'm not making this up---ask Peter or Daniel).

The second observation comes from the way his talk was peppered with ``we found this in a couple sites,'' and ``that in a couple of other.'' The description was that of a fishing expedition---find a circle and look for something, anything, odd about it. If you find something (anything) it is a ``real'' crop circle, otherwise it is fake. I questioned Burke at length about his control groups and control samples. In short, he has none.... On the whole Burke's talk was informative. He did clear up the stories about ``magnetized grain'' (as stated above, it wasn't), radiation (only found at one or two sites, nothing consistent), and genetic abnormalities (one of the early samples was abnormal, that's all)...His thesis, however, struck me as a case of self-confirming research, that is research to confirm a previously held belief, instead of to test (potentially disproving) a hypothesis. "

ONE SAMPLE! That is ALL! WOW a genetic anomoly in ONE SAMPLE! But it would be of little value to provide ALL

[Tim_Lou]

take a look at these pictures:
http://www.circlemakers.org/totc2002.html


finally, i can find a website that is recently updated:
http://www.circlemakers.org/new_documents.html

yeah, maybe your right, freethinker. the last time i tried to find out the truth about crops cicles was like 3 years ago, it is really outdated.

sorry about my research, i cant really do a big one. i dont have this much time and my sisters are saying that im crazy! "you hate researching for homework but now your typing an eassy and doing research for this forums!!!" lol............