Titan flyby

[Stargazer]

Cassini-Huygens did a recent flyby of one of the most interesting (in my opnion at least) moons, Titan. Old images from Voyager didn't show anything of the surface really, so it's very exciting to see some general features of Titan. It's very exciting to finally have this world revealed to us. The really good stuff should, if all goes well, be sent back to Earth from the Huygens probe which will descend through the thick atmosphere and land. It's even built to float for a while if it would land in, say, a liquid hydrocarbon ocean. It will also carry many scientific instruments, such as cameras and spectrometers, and some instruments to study the atmosphere itself - even a microphone. According to some sources, if we're really lucky we could pick up the sounds from thunder on an alien world. Ok, what's the word again? I think it's "wow". More links: http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.cfm, and http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEMEIH0A90E_index_0.html

[BlameTheEx]

Those pictures are fantastic. Oh for just a little more detail. Do the features look volcanic to you, rather than metioric? Still, It looks like a solid surface.

[Stargazer]

The lighter areas seem like they could be rocky/icy, and the darker ones could be liquid. I also noticed a much brighter area, could it be a concentration of ice?

[BlameTheEx]

We may be looking at different images. Check this one.

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/g...amp;type=image

[Stargazer]

It looks more rocky than liquid, also the dark areas, except for the patch in the top of the image. I'm still guessing the dark areas is organic materials, and that the darkest patches could be liquid? I'm not sure at all... it's difficult to interpret these images. I suppose we will get to see more of Titan with more flybys.

[BlameTheEx]

This is what I am seeing.

A number of vertical cylinders, some white, with dark centres. Those centres make them look hollow. One at least appears to be ejecting thick black smoke. I have seen something like it before. Undersea volcanic vents, commonly called "Black Smokers."

If they are indeed what they look like to me, They are huge chimneys. That means rather slow non-violent ejection of minerals. Hot minerals. Quite possibly minerals from which energy can be extracted.

I hardly need to add that these are excellent conditions for life. Undersea volcanic vents are swarming with life that feeds on the energy rich minerals ejected.

A quote from this page:
http://www.onr.navy.mil/focus/ocean/habitats/vents1.htm
______________________________________________
In these areas, extremely hot, mineral-rich fluid flows out from underneath the ocean floor's surface. The hot fluid flows into very cold water, usually 2 C, and cools down quickly. The cooled minerals in the fluid settle around the vent opening creating chimney-like formations. Some chimneys have been known to grow as tall as 6 kilometers!
__________________________________________________ ____

It would be interesting to speculate on what liquid is taking the place of the water of Earth's Black Smokers, or could the thick atmosphere be an acceptable substitute for liquid? Perhaps it IS water.

[Stargazer]

I don't really see the formations you see, what I see is some rocky features and dark liquid. I suppose we will know more soon.

[UncleAl]

This was the closest flyby, 745 miles altitude, to reshape Cassini's orbit by atmospheric drag. Official Truth will metamorphose from Titan being a giant ball of hydrocarbon resources to a big rock decorated with some photolytic organic goo. Do not despair! All that carbon plus subduction and tectonics means... HUGE diamonds!

The very large (N-15)/(N-14) ratio demands progressive atmospheric stripping by radiation and solar wind over cosmic times. Lighter isotope N-14 would be favored to depart vs. the heavier isotope. We should then see an even more extreme depletion in methane (CH4 MW=16.04 vs. N2 at 28.01) and hydrogen, and especially huge deuterium/hydrogen and (C-13)/(C-12) ratios. We also wonder why we don't see any chemically combined nitrogen species like hydrogen cyanide (HCN), cyanogen (NCCN), and acetonitrile, H3CCN. They saw diacetylene HCC-CCH.

Where you have hydrogen cyanide photochemistry you have diaminomaleonitrile and an efficient adenine factory. If you have nucleotides you have life. Titan is inhabited by by diamond-hoarding potentates eager for first contact. NASA crash fundng must be allocated...

[Stargazer]

Originally posted by: UncleAl
This was the closest flyby, 745 miles altitude, to reshape Cassini's orbit by atmospheric drag. Official Truth will metamorphose from Titan being a giant ball of hydrocarbon resources to a big rock decorated with some photolytic organic goo. Do not despair! All that carbon plus subduction and tectonics means... HUGE diamonds!

I wouldn't be so sure that huge diamonds, or even small ones, will be the result of the conditions on Titan...

The very large (N-15)/(N-14) ratio demands progressive atmospheric stripping by radiation and solar wind over cosmic times. Lighter isotope N-14 would be favored to depart vs. the heavier isotope. We should then see an even more extreme depletion in methane (CH4 MW=16.04 vs. N2 at 28.01) and hydrogen, and especially huge deuterium/hydrogen and (C-13)/(C-12) ratios. We also wonder why we don't see any chemically combined nitrogen species like hydrogen cyanide (HCN), cyanogen (NCCN), and acetonitrile, H3CCN. They saw diacetylene HCC-CCH.

Where you have hydrogen cyanide photochemistry you have diaminomaleonitrile and an efficient adenine factory. If you have nucleotides you have life. Titan is inhabited by by diamond-hoarding potentates eager for first contact. NASA crash fundng must be allocated...

My knowledge in the chemistry of Titan is limited it seems, and there hasn't been too much informationa bout it released to the public - at least to my knowledge, so I was wondering if you could give some useful links?

[Tormod]

Originally posted by: Stargazer
The lighter areas seem like they could be rocky/icy, and the darker ones could be liquid. I also noticed a much brighter area, could it be a concentration of ice?

I just attended a science seminar for the press hosted by the European Space Agency. The topic was the Cassini/Huygens mission and they discussed what they expect from the Huygens landing, and also discussed the pictures taken from Flyby A (ie, the one last week).

There are indeed very intriguing features on the surface, but the resolution is still way to low to be able to make out anything. The shades of gray do not tell us anything, and any color image is false color since the surface is not visible due to the haze (so they need to use infrared, and there are only 5 narrow bands in the spectrum in which the surface appears).

A specialist on planetary science explained how ice forms. He made a point which I had not given much thought: Water has the very strange property of being the only known molecule which, when solidified, floats in itself. So water ice tends to float in liquid water because the density of ice is lower than liquid water. Therefore, if there is any water on Titan, it will be frozen, and if there is any liquid water, it will be below the ice.

However, there can also be liquid ethane. Some have suggested oceans of MEthane, but methane only occurs naturally as a gas. Ethane is a favored candidate for oceans or lakes on Titan. Ethane, however, has a freezing point of -135 degrees Celsius, whereas the surface of Titan has an even temperature of -180 degrees Celsius.

So the chances for Huygens landing in liquid are, according to the guy I spoke with, equal to zero. (Sorry, I have the papers at my office and have forgotten his name - all I remember is that he was French and is responsible for the VIMS camera which took the photos of the Huygens landing site last week).