How to talk to aliens

[Curiousgeorge]

Vast distances such as space are a very big challenge, though I do believe it is possible. just one idea would be to create a field around an object where inertia could not effect it.

Much like star trek and their "Warp" field. that way whatever is inside the field does not move faster than the speed of light, and all other things around it do. maybe using gravity and anti-gravity. though I do not believe radio transmissions to be the most effective way of communication. energy effecent yes, though there are MANY more harmonics and octaves of light. I don't believe we know how to use light at its full potential yet.. but it can do much more than just "shine." sub-frequencies and inaudible frequencies of sound are able to carry information, though I dont know if we fully utilize that either, but it still seems limited.

if we could figure out a way to use light to carry the information, and were capable of moving faster/not faster than light.. im sure we would catch someone's attention. if not, I think there would still be a new mode of transportion... a new era of explorers, and a more effecient way of locating E.T.

[Robust]

I'd begin by trying to offer them someting....like a ripe tomato.

[infamous]

Before you ask them to dinner, make sure that your not on the menu!!!!!!!!!!!!

[UncleAl]

Talking to outworlders

1) If there is life, is it technological? Neither pond scum nor aboriginal cultures can communicate. SETI shows no anomalous EM emissions to at least 50 lightyears radius. That is 524,000 cubic lightyears of nobody home.

2) If there is communicative life, what is its technology level? If it is where we are, we have a conversation. If it is much less, they can't talk. If it is much more, we do the listening.

3) The Earth is a hugely brilliant spotlight of EM radiation aross the spectrum starting in the 1940s from miltary radar and religious nutcases in Del Rio, Texas radio broadcasts, then add TV and satellite beamings. One heck of a 60 and 50 Hz hum, too. Nobody has shouted "Hi!"

4) What is the distance delay? Even a meager 10 light-year gap and continuous transmission on both sides makes for a very slow conversation. We won't be here by 2050. Recoverable petroleum resources will be exhausted. Social pressures will collapse First World civilization worldwide as early as 2015 when Baby Boomer mass retirement peaks.

"Talking with Outworlders" is a dead topic unless they visit. If they do visit, they will speak English and we are doomed. Remember the "discovery" of the New World and the Pacific Islanders by "hi-tech" Europe. One imagines the first exchange between terrestrials and visiting outworlders will go something like

Outworlders, "Play ball with us by our rules or we'll shove the bat up your butts."

followed by a meteoroid falling on Paris as necessary to make the point crystal clear. If you discover them, they are dogmeat. If they discover you, you are dog meat.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Originally Posted by UncleAl

followed by a meteoroid falling on Paris as necessary to make the point crystal clear. If you discover them, they are dogmeat. If they discover you, you are dog meat.

Ya think? I understand that contact with an alien culture would probably destroy us - the same way that contact with Western Cultures destroyed the Americas. (ie, they'll put us under through shock and indifference rather than outright conquest.) On the other hand, I think we can safely assume that no interstellar culture will evolve that has been totally and forever monolithic. (Well, maybe not, but the odds are good.) Any alien species will have cultural differences among itself that will have had to learn to either ignore or otherwise overcome. It would be hard for a race of xenophobes to expand into interstellar space, since they would be busy killing each other over slight percieved differences. (Pot, meet kettle.) Of course, that's all wild conjecture informed by my naive idealistic assumptions.

And on the topic of being eaten - I was reading on an evolution blog the other day (I can't find the link right now, damn it) that intelligence was only a plus for social critters. That is, solitary hunters don't really benefit very much from being a whole lot smarter. Further more, hunters in general don't benefit a lot from getting smarter, at least not as much as they benefit from having bigger teeth and sharper claws. The rationale went that if you're primarily a hunter, your breeding success is determined by your ability to catch a lot of game, or at least by your ability to TAKE it from those that do catch it. Therefore, selection pressures will be for bigger, stronger, faster.

In fact, the only type of animal that really benefits from being "smarter" are social creatures with varied diets. Corvids, Parrots, Monkeys, Dolphins.
Look at the things that have evolved seperately many times - eyes, wings, skeletal structure (inside or out) Brains just isn't one of them. The things that did get brains are all creatures that we can make a stab at understanding - they don't seem as "alien" to us as sharks or snakes.

So, I think the fear of being eaten by ravenous alien hordes has more to do with our monkey / prey animal pyschology than it does any real extraterrestrial threat. Being eaten by something is a very primal human fear.

The greater danger is that aliens will destroy us not out of malicousness, greed or hunger, but just indifference. Isn't that how we managed to kill off a whole lot of "lesser" species?

TFS
[who cares about the habitat of the human? we have alien loggers that need to feed their families!]

[orbsycli]

alien species will be nothing like earth species. they will not use the same resources we do, and they will not be able to survive in our environment. well, maybe. but the chances of that, along with the chances of aliens coming here, are very very slim.

[nkt]

Originally Posted by orbsycli

alien species will be nothing like earth species. they will not use the same resources we do, and they will not be able to survive in our environment. well, maybe. but the chances of that, along with the chances of aliens coming here, are very very slim.

But then they are likely to wear spacesuits, so I wouldn't rely on that to save us.

As for the OP suggesting we stream Google to them - are you insane?

I suggest that telling an alien race every last detail about us, our thoughts, our strengths, weaknesses, how we kill and exploit each other, how our economic structures are built, what motivates and scares us, toxicity data, our entire genome, and all the other things off google that would save a million hours of research and actual observation into the human race, would be a Bad Thing.

Whether we wanted to trade with them, or avoid being wiped out by them, playing all our cards at once would be really stupid. If they came to us, we would already be starting with a poor hand from a stacked deck.

They would know ten thousand ways to kill us, & we wouldn't even know if they breathed, let alone what gases. Heck, with that knowledge alone, and the higher ground, a single probe could take over the entire planet with one small nanotech fabrication machine.

[orbsycli]

do we want to kill them?

if a alien society is intelligent enough to space travel to our planet, i doubt they have any intention of killing us.

[TheFaithfulStone]

Originally Posted by nkt

I suggest that telling an alien race every last detail about us, our thoughts, our strengths, weaknesses, how we kill and exploit each other, how our economic structures are built, what motivates and scares us, toxicity data, our entire genome, and all the other things off google that would save a million hours of research and actual observation into the human race, would be a Bad Thing.

Hmm... What did I say about xenophobic species not being able to make it to the interstellar level? We are all ascribing human motives to a hypothetical civilization so advanced it might not even understand what "eat the bald monkey" means. Or for that matter "EAT." Resource competition is probably not a good reason to leave your home world - it's easier to kill your neighbor. But if the aliens are busy killing each other, then they probably won't have made it here...

I've got the agree with orb here Any species that can make the kind of worldwide effort nessecary for interstellar travel has probably discovered that killing each other is counterproductive - and in fact have learned to live with all kinds of different cultures - stretching it to extraterrestrials ain't that big a step.

On the other hand, maybe bald pink bipeds offend their aesthetic sensibilities so deeply that there is no solution but to exterminate the monkey plague!

In that vein maybe the first message we send into outer-space should be "Please don't eat us!"

TFS
[gristly, and a bit gamey in the dark meat]

[nkt]

Originally Posted by orbsycli

do we want to kill them?

if a alien society is intelligent enough to space travel to our planet, i doubt they have any intention of killing us.

Stake your life on that, by not mine nor my planets!

In other words, you may well be right, but if you are not, then even if it is only a small chance, it is too late. You cannot make them "unlearn" it. And what if a side lobe fom the transmission gets picked up by the invasion force about to plunder their planet? Or if they stick our info into a datafeed relay system that spreads lots more info around the galaxy? As I said, one AI or small unit with a ship and a fabricator could take this entire planet, if they had some system to let them not worry about fuel for a year or two, and they didn't really care for us as a species.

Let's face it. Let us look first at ourselves. In 30 years, when the gasoline/oil is really tight, and even the big military players are getting stuck, any little country that puts it's hand up and says, "We just found some oil!" is going to be invaded so fast... Just like now, and Iraq/Afghanistan. And, just like now, with the backing of the majority.

Now seriously, tell me that we won't/don't invade and kill/subjugate millions for our oil needs? Again, with the backing of the majority.

Consider a planet with a load of little green men. We find them, because they broadcast a map of the billions of tonnes of oil they have, good aproximations of population, military strength, economic base, etc.over the radio, in a "Google feed" like way.

Is there a force on this planet that would stop the US and Chinese governments from flying there, and taking the oil by force? The promise of a return to prosperity of the "oil days" alone would ensure a majority.

Now, would they do the same to us?

Don't forget, in a war of them vs. us, they aren't going to be rooting for *us*, are they?