The Lunar Soapbox...

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Tormod

The Lunar Embassy is a fraudulent company, selling something they don't own the right to in the first place.

You are more kind in your words than I would have been. I'd have said that they are making money by hood-winking individuals succeptible to such strategies. No better than a shyster preacher or travelling faith healer...

And anyway, how are they planning to enforce the land property claims?

While my reference above to the old West in the US would imply that violence would be the means of enforcement , whomever takes possession will likely do so through the golden rule... The one who has the gold, makes the rules.

[Jay-qu]

Dont get me wrong Im all for going there, but I just think NASA may have a hard time explaining what good this will be to average Joe who is in part funding the exbidition.

I say we get there first on the prophesy and set up some of those space cannons we have been prototyping

its mine, all mine

[moo]

Originally Posted by Turtle

How long do you all think we have before a baby is born on the Moon?

Dou you all think a baby will be born in space first?

A baby... what?

Some bio stuff has been done in space with newts laying eggs as far back as '94...
http://science.ksc.nasa.gov/shuttle/...65-pocc-12.txt

However... there might be some problems with a human baby's development in a gravity free environment. Bone density and shape perhaps...
NASA Quest > Space Team Online

But to answer the question, I'm guessing it will be a l-o-o-o-o-n-g time, and probably happen in space first (for a faster return to earth in case of complications, if for no other reason).

moo

[niin]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

And so we're going back to the moon, right?

How to justify it?

They can't justify it. It is a selfish PR campaign.
There is no good reasons (benefiting mankind) for going to the moon anytime soon.
They wouldn't never said that, but that is the truth.
The money could easily be used better elsewhere.
If i wanted to be impressed, i would rather watch a movie. Would be alot cheaper too.
A moon colony would be a very expensive laboratory, far far away. Just silly.

Originally Posted by Tormod

Why did humanity end up covering the planet? By exploring and traveling.

we covered the planet, because we could easily adapt to every place we arrived. The moon and space is a different kind of challenge.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by niin

A moon colony would be a very expensive laboratory, far far away. Just silly.
.
.
.
we covered the planet, because we could easily adapt to every place we arrived. The moon and space is a different kind of challenge.

Challenge is the key word. What we may think of as easy today, such as crossing the seas in small boats, or sending pictures invisibly through the air, were expensive and considerable challenges for early peeps. Without ever increasingly complex challenges to overcome, humans have little or nothing to strive for. "We do these things because they are hard." - JFK

[Boerseun]

Originally Posted by Racoon

I like your continuity of subtle resentments and jabs at America and Americans in general.

Nothing particular against America or Americans, Racoon, the fact is that the dumbing down of society can be easily verified by watching ten minutes of any television channel of your choice. The reason I picked the States is because they have been to the moon, and have declared their intention of going back there. I want to contrast this intention with the possibility of rather routing those funds into education, so that the dumbing down of society can be braked, at least in the US.

Originally Posted by Racoon

Much of the 'dumbing down' is a direct result of invading hordes of uneducated immigrants.

...slightly xenophobic, dontcha think?

Originally Posted by Racoon

...system that was designed decades ago and is severely underfunded.

That's my point, send the moon money to the schools - would that make any significant difference in 50 years? Then maybe think about going back to the moon, once the tide of stupidity have been turned.

Originally Posted by Racoon

On to Mars instead!

I'd love to see it happen in my lifetime, if only for the 'coolness' factor. But that'll be a hard sell, I guess... although GWB did talk in that direction, there is no way he can commit future administrations to it. Bush senior committed to a return to the moon in his reign, to much public acclaim, only to have his plans scrapped by the Clinton administration - then to have it modified and revived by his son. Sounds kinda Darth Vaderish... (What is it with the Bush family, Iraq & the moon? ) [/que X-Files soundtrack]

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

Nothing particular against America or Americans, Racoon, the fact is that the dumbing down of society can be easily verified by watching ten minutes of any television channel of your choice. The reason I picked the States is because they have been to the moon, and have declared their intention of going back there. I want to contrast this intention with the possibility of rather routing those funds into education, so that the dumbing down of society can be braked, at least in the US.

I choose the science and history channels and public broadcasting; they smarten people up if they watch more than 10 minutes. American students and the public, in my humble opinion, were actually inspired to study science by the space race of the 60's and 70's. Such endeavors are smarteners () , not dumbers, as well as inspirations to strive for something that is both challenging and worthwhile. Not only Americans watched in awe as Neal stepped out of the lander; the whole world was transfixed. We need more such activities I think, not less. Who's tougher; a gangbanger or an astronaut?

[Racoon]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

Nothing particular against America or Americans, Racoon, the fact is that the dumbing down of society can be easily verified by watching ten minutes of any television channel of your choice.

...slightly xenophobic, dontcha think?

I take offense to the word Xenophobe and Homophobe.
Both translate to a fear of Foreigners and Homos.

I don't fear them, I am repulsed by their sexual behaviors and their willingness to break the laws of our society.

I see the gears of the Ultra-Left Democratic working. This PoliticalCorrectness biz' is out of control. If you speak out or are offended by people invading your country illegally, then some how you are a xenophobe.

Bullshit.

Apologies for sidetracking this thread.

I concur with the waste of political and financial capital to go back to the moon.

Why would China want to go to the moon if the U.S. already has?
With the amount of stolen technology they've aquired, one might question their motives.

[Boerseun]

Originally Posted by Racoon

I take offense to the word Xenophobe and Homophobe.

Both translate to a fear of Foreigners and Faggots.

I don't fear them, I am repulsed by their sexual behaviors and their willingness to break the laws of our society.

I see the gears of the Ultra-Left Democratic working. This PoliticalCorrectness biz' is out of control. If you speak out or are offended against people invading your country illegally, or some guy ramming his penis in another mans ass, then some how you are a 'phobe.

Bullshit.

Rac, if you've got any problems with foreigners and/or homosexuals, I would advise you to open up another thread and pursue the matter there. And also, in slightly less colourful language. I'm raising points here as to how to justify going to the moon - so don't hijack it now, and don't try to be obnoxious.

Cheers

[Boerseun]

Originally Posted by Turtle

I choose the science and history channels and public broadcasting; they smarten people up if they watch more than 10 minutes.

Hey - great idea! So maybe we can use some of the moon money to launch an ad campaign to lure the audience away from FTV, MTV, Cartoon Network, Reality TV and all the other channels showing mindless crap. They are terminal for anybody's mental faculties if watched for any amount of time. And, unfortunately, they have the biggest slice of the viewing pie.

Originally Posted by Turtle

American students and the public, in my humble opinion, were actually inspired to study science by the space race of the 60's and 70's. Such endeavors are smarteners () , not dumbers, as well as inspirations to strive for something that is both challenging and worthwhile.

Definitely. But that's my point, see. Let's say the US goes back to the moon. It will definitely inspire a certain percentage of the population to aspire to greater heights and achieve more, but will it do anything at all for the vast majority? How would this compare to, say, not going to the moon at all, but rather use that money to inject it into the whole educational system, from the bottom up? Granted, the effect felt by an individual student might not be large, but the base of application is accross the board, with a much broader effect. How would these two scenarios stack up, if compared 50 years down the line?

Originally Posted by Turtle

Not only Americans watched in awe as Neal stepped out of the lander; the whole world was transfixed. We need more such activities I think, not less. Who's tougher; a gangbanger or an astronaut?

That was awesome, yes. But keep in mind that the Apollo program eventually got canned because of, amongst other reasons, public interest waning. Once the excitement of the initial landing was over and done with, it turned out that there was other programs on TV with better special effects and a better storyline.

If the main reason for going back to the moon is once again political, like it was in the 1960's, I think in the long run it'll simply be a waste of money that could've been better spent somewhere else. Spending billions of dollars to have awesome footage that's shown on one afternoon of rating-breaking TV, as compared to the raising of educational standards for millions of kids across the country, won't pay off in my opinion.