Hypography X Prize Entry

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-07-2007   #111 (permalink)
Creating
Hypography Staff Member
Administrator
 
GAHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Winterpeg, Manitoba
Posts: 1,909
GAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to all
Send a message via ICQ to GAHD Send a message via AIM to GAHD Send a message via MSN to GAHD Send a message via Yahoo to GAHD
Re: Hypography X Prize Entry

for testing to 100C, A large oven (such as found in pizzerias) would certainly do the trick. anything down to -40C will soon be testable by myself just by walking out my back door.

A parts list to withstand vacuum assuming central motor & transmission:
  • +3* solid wheel, preferably a die-cast & machined unit
  • 1* fluid less transmission (unless normal tranny fluid is replaced with something that won't boil-off in vacuum, mercury perhaps)?
  • 1* fluid less differential (unless subbed as above)
  • 2* RC boards & antennas (controller & vehicle)
  • +1* battery pack(s)(which can always be made up pretty quickly)
  • ?* bolts & other fasteners
  • 1* basic chassis
Any part requiring lubrication probably won't work too well when it's lube boils off in the vacuum, so high-precision machining is our best if not only option if we go a mechanical route. Can you imagine trying to seal the system in such an environment? standard gaskets would freeze/cook and explode in next to no time.
__________________
Sometimes a Hypography Forum Administrator



"With a big enough engine, even a brick will fly." -Law of Aerospace
GAHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2007   #112 (permalink)
Ancora Imparo
Hypography Staff Member
Moderator
Editor
Gallery Curator
Basic Subscription
Sponsor
 
Jay-qu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 5,646
Blog Entries: 1
Jay-qu has a brilliant futureJay-qu has a brilliant futureJay-qu has a brilliant futureJay-qu has a brilliant futureJay-qu has a brilliant futureJay-qu has a brilliant futureJay-qu has a brilliant futureJay-qu has a brilliant futureJay-qu has a brilliant futureJay-qu has a brilliant future
Re: Hypography X Prize Entry

How can we precisely machine parts when they are going to be in a range of -40-100 degrees? wont thermal expansion make that impossible?
__________________
Jay-qu
::Hypography Moderator of..
Chemistry, Physics & Mathematics, Astronomy & Cosmology, Space and Technology & gadgets Forums

Einstein said that if quantum mechanics is right, then the world is crazy. Well, Einstein was right. The world is crazy.
-Daniel Greenberger

Physics Guides - Physics Resources and help
Jay-qu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2007   #113 (permalink)
Doing the Impossible
Hypography Staff Member
Moderator
Gallery Curator
 
TheBigDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Madison, OH (when not in fantasy land)
Posts: 3,493
Blog Entries: 22
TheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant future
Send a message via MSN to TheBigDog
Re: Hypography X Prize Entry

Quote:
Originally Posted by GAHD View Post
anything down to -40C will soon be testable by myself just by walking out my back door.
Road trip to Winnipeg!

Any volunteers for engineering or locating a vacuum chamber for testing rovers? It will be easier to relocate the rovers than the chamber, so where should we look for locating it? I like the idea of having it in an environment that will provide good cold weather testing.

Bill
__________________
aka TheBigDog - Hypography Full Freaking Moderator
Become a Hypography sponsor!
The truth is incontravertible; malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end there it is. - Winston Churchill

TheBigDog's recommended reading: The Science of Success - Charles G. Koch

A neutron goes into a bar and asks the bartender, "How much for a beer?"
The bartender replies, "For you, no charge."
TheBigDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2007   #114 (permalink)
Tittle
Platinum Subscription
Sponsor
 
Turtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Fifth Plane
Posts: 10,188
Blog Entries: 34
Turtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond repute
Arrow Re: Hypography X Prize Entry

Quote:
Originally Posted by GAHD View Post
...Any part requiring lubrication probably won't work too well when it's lube boils off in the vacuum, so high-precision machining is our best if not only option if we go a mechanical route. Can you imagine trying to seal the system in such an environment? standard gaskets would freeze/cook and explode in next to no time.
I think we need a library of sources on the pertinent topics so we don't unnecessarily reproduce work already done. Searching 'hazards of vacuum to space vehicles' I found this book for sale and some samples of chapters. Coinkydinkilly, the section quoted is on lubricants.

Space Vehicle Mechanisms: Elements ... - Google Book Search
__________________
Turtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2007   #115 (permalink)
Creating
Hypography Staff Member
Administrator
 
GAHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Winterpeg, Manitoba
Posts: 1,909
GAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to allGAHD is a name known to all
Send a message via ICQ to GAHD Send a message via AIM to GAHD Send a message via MSN to GAHD Send a message via Yahoo to GAHD
Re: Hypography X Prize Entry

I've started a thread dedicated to a specific design of rover. Those with the will come join TEAM SOLID STATE.

The Goal: NO mechanically connected moving parts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle View Post
I think we need a library of sources on the pertinent topics so we don't unnecessarily reproduce work already done...
Great Idea! I stole it...
__________________
Sometimes a Hypography Forum Administrator



"With a big enough engine, even a brick will fly." -Law of Aerospace
GAHD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007   #116 (permalink)
Questioning
 
Roadam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Slovenia,Europe
Posts: 173
Roadam has a spectacular aura aboutRoadam has a spectacular aura aboutRoadam has a spectacular aura about
Re: Hypography X Prize Entry

Does one really need a transmission? Electrical motor can be mounted directly, speed can be changed with voltage/current. As for steering, I think that it too can be made without use of direct contract, but that fits into team solid state thread...
Roadam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007   #117 (permalink)
Tittle
Platinum Subscription
Sponsor
 
Turtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Fifth Plane
Posts: 10,188
Blog Entries: 34
Turtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond repute
Arrow Re: Hypography X Prize Entry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-qu View Post
How can we precisely machine parts when they are going to be in a range of -40-100 degrees? wont thermal expansion make that impossible?
Not at all. We could do worse than research what metal(material) NASA used for their mobile machines.

A point I have yet seen mentioned that is bothering me a bit is whether or not we intend to leave an orbiter circling the Moon and acting as a relay for our data signals??? I see most Mars rover signals go this route and the Apollo missions did as well?

Here's a nice bit for our Library titled Apollo TV and Communications Documentationhttp://history.nasa.gov/alsj/AWST690526Art.pdf

An article from the above link on the first color television signal sent to Earth from space. >> http://history.nasa.gov/alsj/AWST690526Art.pdf
__________________
Turtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007   #118 (permalink)
Doing the Impossible
Hypography Staff Member
Moderator
Gallery Curator
 
TheBigDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Madison, OH (when not in fantasy land)
Posts: 3,493
Blog Entries: 22
TheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant future
Send a message via MSN to TheBigDog
Re: Hypography X Prize Entry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle View Post
A point I have yet seen mentioned that is bothering me a bit is whether or not we intend to leave an orbiter circling the Moon and acting as a relay for our data signals??? I see most Mars rover signals go this route and the Apollo missions did as well?
I was not planning on orbiting the moon, or leaving an orbiting satellite. I figured we land on the moon so that our Lander is always visible to the earth. Even the low powered conversations between the rovers and the lander should be easily snooped on by earth based listening stations. The Lander will be intended for two way conversations with the earth directly, and relay of data to the rovers.

But it brings me to a question that I was holding for later when we get to the landing phase of the mission: what is the reason for entering lunar orbit as opposed to going straight to the surface of the moon?

Bill
__________________
aka TheBigDog - Hypography Full Freaking Moderator
Become a Hypography sponsor!
The truth is incontravertible; malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end there it is. - Winston Churchill

TheBigDog's recommended reading: The Science of Success - Charles G. Koch

A neutron goes into a bar and asks the bartender, "How much for a beer?"
The bartender replies, "For you, no charge."
TheBigDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007   #119 (permalink)
Tittle
Platinum Subscription
Sponsor
 
Turtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Fifth Plane
Posts: 10,188
Blog Entries: 34
Turtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond reputeTurtle has a reputation beyond repute
Arrow Re: Hypography X Prize Entry

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBigDog View Post
I was not planning on orbiting the moon, or leaving an orbiting satellite. I figured we land on the moon so that our Lander is always visible to the earth. Even the low powered conversations between the rovers and the lander should be easily snooped on by earth based listening stations. The Lander will be intended for two way conversations with the earth directly, and relay of data to the rovers.

But it brings me to a question that I was holding for later when we get to the landing phase of the mission: what is the reason for entering lunar orbit as opposed to going straight to the surface of the moon?

Bill
On the boldened, I don't get this impression that it is "easy", but I think this is going to depend on the specifics of our radio equipment. I will be careful drawing parallels to Mars rovers and our Lunar project given the Moon's "close" proximity.

I'm not sure of any reason to orbit if we don't plan on leaving an orbiter. We better ask a rocket scientist. Maybe so we can line up our shot?

Ok; on to some specific ideas for the rover drive. I was thinking we could possibly adapt the rings-on-a-piston-in-a-cylinder used in internal combustion engines as an axle bearing. Works in a broad range of temperatures and pressures, and tolerates abrasive contaminants; proven technology and simple.

To expand on that I envision a single motor internal to our pressurized black box & driving a flywheel whose bottom bearing is as above and whose shaft projects below and outside the rover. The wheels, rather than having high tolerance machined axles and bearings are "sloppy" fit, like the old erector sets. Motive force to the wheels is drawn from the protruding flywheel axle by "loose" fit belts or chains.
__________________
Turtle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007   #120 (permalink)
Doing the Impossible
Hypography Staff Member
Moderator
Gallery Curator
 
TheBigDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Madison, OH (when not in fantasy land)
Posts: 3,493
Blog Entries: 22
TheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant futureTheBigDog has a brilliant future
Send a message via MSN to TheBigDog
Re: Hypography X Prize Entry

I had not considered the idea of building earth based communications systems. I figured we would latch onto some existing antenna system for space based communications. If it is not too much we could always build a series of stations in the yards of Hypo members around the globe to maintain 24x7 contact with the moon. Another aspect of the mission to contemplate, but I would make it a later requirement of the mission.

Bill
__________________
aka TheBigDog - Hypography Full Freaking Moderator
Become a Hypography sponsor!
The truth is incontravertible; malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end there it is. - Winston Churchill

TheBigDog's recommended reading: The Science of Success - Charles G. Koch

A neutron goes into a bar and asks the bartender, "How much for a beer?"
The bartender replies, "For you, no charge."
TheBigDog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Re-entry to earth from space question OzAnt Space 12 04-16-2007
Which entry page? Tormod Community Polls 21 10-17-2005
M Prize Breaks One Million Dollars! whoa182 Medical Science 5 03-11-2005
March Quiz Prize Winner Tormod Announcements 0 04-03-2002


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2000-2008 Hypography
Part of the Hypography - Science for Everyone Network