[TheBigDog]

Originally Posted by Jay-qu

I dont think we should go with a moving lander - its damn cool, but its outside the scope of the objectives. If we want to win the prize we need to just achieve the objectives as cheap and fast as possible.

I asked for application to become an official team and there are already over 100 teams the sign up fee has not been finalised but they say its between -10thousand - let the fund raising begin!

100 teams already! We need a working model before they have finalized the requirements.

Bill

[Jay-qu]

We are on the road BD, the wheels are in motion - phone calls are been made and proposals asked for

who is good at selling a concept that will cost lots and give very little return initially?

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Jay-qu

I dont think we should go with a moving lander - its damn cool, but its outside the scope of the objectives. If we want to win the prize we need to just achieve the objectives as cheap and fast as possible. ...

Moving is actually one of the primary requirements for the $30 million dollar prize.
Google Sponsors Lunar X PRIZE to Create a Space Race for a New Generation | X PRIZE Foundation

Private companies from around the world will compete to land a privately funded robotic rover on the Moon that is capable of completing several mission objectives, including roaming the lunar surface for at least 500 meters and sending video, images and data back to the Earth. ...

Pyro's taxonomy is a good concept; Perhaps when we get the divisions well settled we can make separate Forums for them and then separate threads within to hash out sub-problems?

Perhaps every week or two we can make summary posts to solidify agreement on ideas before we advance?

I'm already having more fun with this than is my due. Que sera sera.

[Jay-qu]

Originally Posted by Turtle

Moving is actually one of the primary requirements for the $30 million dollar prize.
Google Sponsors Lunar X PRIZE to Create a Space Race for a New Generation | X PRIZE Foundation


Pyro's taxonomy is a good concept; Perhaps when we get the divisions well settled we can make separate Forums for them and then separate threads within to hash out sub-problems?

Perhaps every week or two we can make summary posts to solidify agreement on ideas before we advance?

I'm already having more fun with this than is my due. Que sera sera.

Sorry turtle I think we need to clarify some definitions here - by lander I meant the module that will provide the shell for the probe, the lander is the part that will require a rocket to slow itself down and some airbags to soften the landing - but after that it cracks open and the buggers roll out

[Pyrotex]

Originally Posted by Jay-qu

Sorry turtle I think we need to clarify some definitions here - by lander I meant the module that will provide the shell for the probe, the lander is the part that will require a rocket to slow itself down and some airbags to soften the landing - but after that it cracks open and the buggers roll out

But even your description can be interpreted multiple ways, producing multiple designs. Rocket science isn't easy.

My interpretation of YOUR clarification is that the "Payload" that goes to the Moon has no shell at all. It has a navigation system and a rocket of some kind (solid? liquid?) A few miles above the surface, that rocket fires and brings the whole payload to a halt. The Lander portion (containing the Rover) pops off, as the payload accelerates upward and away. The lander deploys airbags. The lander/airbags hit the Moon's surface hard, bounce, roll, careen, come to a halt. The airbags deflate and the lander unfolds. The rover is revealed and released.

Is this your "vision" of what happens? Don't worry if it's not. Even at NASA, we go through many iterations of ideas and visions before we all agree that we understand.

[TheBigDog]

We need a team dedicated to building a simulator for our mission. The design team will need to communicate clearly enough for the simulator team to create it accurately.

Bill

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by TheBigDog

I like the idea of having the lander act as a command center for the rovers. The rovers are basically stupid remote control cars run by the lander PC. The lander has solar panels and acts as a recharger for the rovers. They go out and return on a single charge. Very simple little devices. There are virtually no moving parts on the lander. It acts as a base station for the rovers and does all the communication with Earth. The computers use all solid state memory. Again, no moving parts.

For the HD near-real-time transmission they require, we likely need an extendable, unfoldable, aimable parabolic (is that high-gain?) antenna on the lander to relay/send the signals to Earth.

I agree no solar panels on the rovers. Given a sufficiently large battery, we needn't even recharge the rovers. We calculate what it will need to drive the 50500 meters, and take the required photos and radio them to the lander.

Maybe one rover to do the minimum to win, and one that goes for the bonuses?

Speaking of roving...>>

Originally Posted by Pyrotex

8.10.7.4 Wheel Assemblies
8.10.7.4.1 Wheel Rims
8.10.7.4.2 Wheel Spokes
8.10.7.4.3 Wheel Hubs
8.10.7.4.4 Wheel Axle Assemblies
8.10.7.4.5 Wheel Gearing Assemblies
...

We might consider other means of motation rather than wheels. Treads? Legs? Traction drive (think sewing machine and how the fabric is pulled under the needle)? Rolling ball? Other?

It's late...that's all I got.

[Jay-qu]

Originally Posted by Pyrotex

But even your description can be interpreted multiple ways, producing multiple designs. Rocket science isn't easy.

My interpretation of YOUR clarification is that the "Payload" that goes to the Moon has no shell at all. It has a navigation system and a rocket of some kind (solid? liquid?) A few miles above the surface, that rocket fires and brings the whole payload to a halt. The Lander portion (containing the Rover) pops off, as the payload accelerates upward and away. The lander deploys airbags. The lander/airbags hit the Moon's surface hard, bounce, roll, careen, come to a halt. The airbags deflate and the lander unfolds. The rover is revealed and released.

Is this your "vision" of what happens? Don't worry if it's not. Even at NASA, we go through many iterations of ideas and visions before we all agree that we understand.

Yeah that is what I was trying to get at saying 'shell' the part with the airbags that hits the surface and the rover comes out of.

[Jay-qu]

Originally Posted by Turtle

For the HD near-real-time transmission they require, we likely need an extendable, unfoldable, aimable parabolic (is that high-gain?) antenna on the lander to relay/send the signals to Earth.

I agree no solar panels on the rovers. Given a sufficiently large battery, we needn't even recharge the rovers. We calculate what it will need to drive the 50 meters, and take the required photos and radio them to the lander.

Maybe one rover to do the minimum to win, and one that goes for the bonuses?

Speaking of roving...>>

We might consider other means of motation rather than wheels. Treads? Legs? Traction drive (think sewing machine and how the fabric is pulled under the needle)? Rolling ball? Other?

It's late...that's all I got.

I like where you are headed with this Turtle, the minimum challenge is 500m and the bonus is 5k - I was thinking of having a single rover that is solar powered because then it can complete the mission of lasting through a lunar night - also theoretically it can stay there as long as the sun shines

[Jay-qu]

I see this mission in three distinct steps - though smaller substeps will probably become apparent, but never-the-less, three main steps

1. Get to LEO

delta V of LEO is ~7.8km/s plus drag ~9-10km/s

This is what will be required of the launch system - I am currently looking at what Boeing have to offer and am wondering what the mass of our LEO and beyond module will approx weigh? then a suitable rocket can be selected and we can get a ball park price.

2. LEO to lunar (orbit?) or straight towards the surface..

delta V required is 4.1km/s to the lunar orbit, or 5.7km/s to the Moons orbit
Not sure how this part will be powered but I would like to know approx % of total mass that is required to get us this part of the trip (this may depend on the fuel used?)

3. Deceleration

now what happens for here? do we require a burn to slow us down or will we be sucked in to the moon? maybe this step will need to be broken into 2 parts..

the final part been deceleration as falling towards the surface - it has been proposed that this is done in part by rocket propulsion and then airbags. The guidelines say the landing must be soft - not sure what they mean by this, we will have to wait till the official rules come out. I have suggested that (almost)current OTS jetpack technology be used for this phase.

Hope this sets some structure, feel free to expand on it

J

a free fall from the