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06-04-2008
| | Creating | | Join Date: May 2005 Location: Silver Spring, MD, USA
Posts: 4,385
| |  We ‘aint afraid of no giant Orion rocket! Though future spaceflight may be very green
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkt  I'm amazed no-one picked up on the issues of Stage 1. A launch from Florida would seem to be unlikely. | Oh, here at hypography we don’t let little environmental issues like launching giant Orion rockets from Earth’s surface bother us! 
The physics failing to add up, however – or, in the case of this thread, no attempt at any arithmetic whatever being made – will almost certainly earn a sound thrashing – as it has in this thread. When it comes to the physics of spaceflight, bluffing and wishful thinking is not allowed! 
Seriously, a spaceflight mission involving sending anything more massive than a Starwisp to another star within a human lifetime will, most believe, require an unprecedentedly huge amount of space engineering, with most of the materials coming from bodies other than earth. The previously mentioned science fictional ship Prometheus requires an fleet of solar powered lasers orbiting closer than Mercury, and a Fresnel lens around the diameter of the moon to focus them. The spacecraft itself – though many times larger than anything launched or assembled in space to the present day - is only a minute fraction of the total system mass.
It’s reasonable to assume that the only thing being lifted from Earth in such an endeavor would be humans, and possibly tools and equipment impractical to manufacture in space. With a fleet of space-built vessels to rendezvous with them, such trips could be accomplished by vehicles little larger or more advanced than SpaceShipOne, with environmental impact a fraction of that of total present day ground and air travel.
Advanced spaceflight and space engineering is not necessarily un-green 
__________________ Moderator: Computers and Technology; Medical Science; Science Projects and Homework; Philosophy of Science; Physics and Mathematics; Environmental Studies |
06-04-2008
|  | Astounding Vision | |  2 Many Bugs Champion! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: South Eastern North Carolina, Cape Fear Region
Posts: 2,722
| | | Re: Quickest way to get to The Super Earth, will this work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nkt I'm amazed no-one picked up on the issues of Stage 1. A launch from Florida would seem to be unlikely. | Why use a nuclear pulse? Use a nuclear light bulb rocket to lift it from the Earth, you might even be able to use a gaseous core nuclear rocket as the booster for the last stage. A throw away gaseous core nuclear rocket. It could be tuned to maximum thrust instead of reuse since you don't want it back. 
__________________ Michael
Nuclear is the only real option! http://www.nuclearspace.com/Liberty_ship_menupg.aspx
Who died and left you in charge? Captain Bipto!
The early bird might get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese!
Life is the poetry of the universe.
Love is the poetry of life.
Over heard from a three year old, "Daddy why do my toes get sticky when I eat strawberry jam?" 
Never wrestle a troll. You both get dirty and the troll likes it   |
06-04-2008
|  | Thinking | | Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 15
| | | Re: Quickest way to get to The Super Earth, will this work?
quick question. where's the hell is this 'super earth', this gilese? |
06-04-2008
|  | Understanding | | Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 300
| | | Re: Quickest way to get to The Super Earth, will this work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon13 quick question. where's the hell is this 'super earth', this gilese? | Gliese 581 is a red dwarf star some twenty light years distant from our Sun. Gliese 581 c is a large terrestrial planet that orbits within its "habitable zone". It is several times the mass of the Earth. It is the first extra-solar planet found that might meet the requirements for supporting life.
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"Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scruntiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone |
06-04-2008
| | Astounding Vision | | 2 Many Bugs Champion! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: South Eastern North Carolina, Cape Fear Region
Posts: 2,722
| | | Re: Quickest way to get to The Super Earth, will this work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus Gliese 581 is a red dwarf star some twenty light years distant from our Sun. Gliese 581 c is a large terrestrial planet that orbits within its "habitable zone". It is several times the mass of the Earth. It is the first extra-solar planet found that might meet the requirements for supporting life. | I'm betting that Gliese 581 c is more of Neptune or Uranus type planet than an Earth type planet. Of course one of the first SCI-FI novels I ever read (When Worlds Collide) was about a Neptune sized planet that collides with the Earth and it has a Earth sized moon that is left behind in the orbit of the Earth when the big planets eats the Earth and moves on in a hyperbolic orbit from the sun. The idea was a Neptune sized planet could have an Earth sized moon since the Earth has a large moon as well. So if a Neptune sized planet exists around Gliese that planet could have an Earth sized moon..... Ok it's far fetched but at least we know now that a gas giant can exist close to its star.
__________________ Michael
Nuclear is the only real option! http://www.nuclearspace.com/Liberty_ship_menupg.aspx
Who died and left you in charge? Captain Bipto!
The early bird might get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese!
Life is the poetry of the universe.
Love is the poetry of life.
Over heard from a three year old, "Daddy why do my toes get sticky when I eat strawberry jam?"
Never wrestle a troll. You both get dirty and the troll likes it |
06-04-2008
|  | Questioning | | Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 209
| | | Re: Quickest way to get to The Super Earth, will this work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotex Gardamorg...
...fantastic!! I love your imagination. I love your drawings. I love your audacity.
You're gonna be a fine rocket scientist some day -- if these other yahoos don't squash you first.
I used to dream the same dreams 50 years ago! I drew rocket ships out my ass. I only dreamed of going to Mars. YOU are dreaming of going to the stars. You have the basic concepts: nuclear impulse, ion drive, solar sails (enhanced with solar cannons). I am totally impressed.
The importance of whether or not your idea will WORK -- as you have described it so far -- is not that important. Some rework is obviously necessary to "fine-tune" the trajectories and the techniques. What IS important is that you are beginning to UNDERSTAND the trajectories and techniques. You're developing the vocabulary. You're developing the concepts.
Pretty soon, you'll have mastered the math so you can actually calculate what size nuclear impulse you'll need, and how big that solar sail has to be, and how long will it really take to get to Gliese. And what to <<DO>> when you get to Gliese. Then,...
...then you will be unstoppable.
I love it.
I love it.
Pyro [NASA Rocket Scientist] [no kidding] |
There was a little quiz I took at the end of this year, it said Math, Science and Cosmology were my strongest subjects.
I have to admit school work is pretty easy when I'm working out flaws with you guys on this site.
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"We believed the world would not be the same, a few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent, I remembered a line from the Hindu scripture, the bagavagita, Vishnu was trying to convince the prince that he should do his duty, and to impress him, he takes on his multi-armed form and says, Now I have become death, destroyer of worlds. I suppose we all thought that, in one way or another"
-Robert J Oppenheimer, The atomic bomb |
06-05-2008
|  | ¿42? | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: 33.78N 84.66W
Posts: 5,654
| | | Re: Quickest way to get to The Super Earth, will this work?
I'm wondering....what are the chances such a solar sail could travel the expanse between here and Gliese without experiencing any damage? How much damage could such a fragile craft endure without effecting its alleged performance?
Me thinks perhaps your chances would be better at winning the 3 largest lotteries in the world all on the same day...
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06-05-2008
| | Questioning | | Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 209
| | | Re: Quickest way to get to The Super Earth, will this work?
Quote: |
The physics failing to add up, however – or, in the case of this thread, no attempt at any arithmetic whatever being made – will almost certainly earn a sound thrashing – as it has in this thread. When it comes to the physics of spaceflight, bluffing and wishful thinking is not allowed!
|
Jesus Christ Rambo!
What makes me mad, is that, I've had worse ideas, I mean much worse, and you didn't really snap at those, yet when I post this one, you all the sudden get a hard on to bash it!!!!
__________________
"We believed the world would not be the same, a few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent, I remembered a line from the Hindu scripture, the bagavagita, Vishnu was trying to convince the prince that he should do his duty, and to impress him, he takes on his multi-armed form and says, Now I have become death, destroyer of worlds. I suppose we all thought that, in one way or another"
-Robert J Oppenheimer, The atomic bomb |
06-05-2008
| | ¿42? | | Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: 33.78N 84.66W
Posts: 5,654
| | | Re: Quickest way to get to The Super Earth, will this work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardamorg What makes me mad, is that, I've had worse ideas, I mean much worse, and you didn't really snap at those, yet when I post this one, you all the sudden get a hard on to bash it!!!! | If you've got that much faith in it then support your claim. Post the math, the physics. Don't get all pissed off because you can't just waltz in here and expect us to believe that it will work just because you say so. If you're looking for a naive audience that will just accept whatever you say then try your local kindergarten. Around here we expect science.
__________________ Clay Editor and Forum Administrator stego anyone?
Add yourself to Hypography's Frappr. "There are only 10 kinds of people in the world - - .....Those who understand binary, and those who don't ."
"Draw no conclusions before their time." |
06-05-2008
| | Questioning | | Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 209
| | | Re: Quickest way to get to The Super Earth, will this work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by C1ay If you've got that much faith in it then support your claim. Post the math, the physics. Don't get all pissed off because you can't just waltz in here and expect us to believe that it will work just because you say so. If you're looking for a naive audience that will just accept whatever you say then try your local kindergarten. Around here we expect science. | My getting pissed off has nothing to do with whether it will work or not.
I'm mad because your acting like I didn't do it to the best of my knowledge, and that I'm intentionally trying to decieve you and earn respect that isn't deserved.
Thats why I'm mad!
__________________
"We believed the world would not be the same, a few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent, I remembered a line from the Hindu scripture, the bagavagita, Vishnu was trying to convince the prince that he should do his duty, and to impress him, he takes on his multi-armed form and says, Now I have become death, destroyer of worlds. I suppose we all thought that, in one way or another"
-Robert J Oppenheimer, The atomic bomb | | |
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