Teleporting rocket fuel as a Bose-Einstein condensate

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Old 06-28-2008
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Re: Antimatter particle accelerator, "steam", and "photonic" rockets

Well, I was intentionally vague when I mentioned my BEC fuel transceiver system. Some of your objections I was already aware of.

Violation of conservation of momentum--I think this one is solved by adding the necessary momentum at the ground station. Then there is no additional burden on the spaceship.

Other objections--I just say that the "tuning" of the two BEC chambers to the same deBroglie wavelength is a "quantum effect". Nobody really understands quantum mechanics, right? So, if you have a problem with oxygen atoms "disappearing" in a BEC chamber on the ground and "appearing" in one on the spaceship, just chalk it up to quantum tunneling. They never really "disappeared" at all, it's just that the two BEC chambers are quantum tuned to be one and the same chamber. The oxygen atom has a 50-50 chance of being in either!

Quantum babble is such a powerful explanatory device.
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Re: Teleporting rocket fuel as a Bose-Einstein condensate

Well then if anyone comes up with it we have a name for it...

We'll call it the Quantum Babble Drive!
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Re: Teleporting rocket fuel as a Bose-Einstein condensate

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We'll call it the Quantum Babble Drive!
And if they ask how it works...

Well, we've got this stuff here on this side then, there's some quantum uncertainty... infinite wavelength... wave particle duality, and uh... tunneling - yeah definitely some tunneling involved in this part here... a bit more uncertainty... then god plays dice and out it comes on the other end.

and it'll sound very believable coming from Edward Witten.

~modest
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Re: Teleporting rocket fuel as a Bose-Einstein condensate

I do believe you guys are getting the hang of it!

On the serious side, Physics often finds new laws and new phenomena around the "edges" of the known domains.

We knew all about electricity... until someone tried to pass a current below 7 degrees Kelvin. Then, KAZOOM! A whole new realm of phenomenology to test. A whole new realm of technology to discover.

A similar thing happened to the gas laws when we tested them in plasmas.

Again at the boundaries of the very fast.

Again at the boundaries of the very small.

There are many boundaries we haven't prodded and probed yet. I hope for marvelous things near gravitational gradient = true zero. And energy density = zero. And temperature = zero. And others. Who knows what we may find.
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Re: Teleporting rocket fuel as a Bose-Einstein condensate

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Originally Posted by Pyrotex View Post
I do believe you guys are getting the hang of it!

On the serious side, Physics often finds new laws and new phenomena around the "edges" of the known domains.

We knew all about electricity... until someone tried to pass a current below 7 degrees Kelvin. Then, KAZOOM! A whole new realm of phenomenology to test. A whole new realm of technology to discover.

A similar thing happened to the gas laws when we tested them in plasmas.

Again at the boundaries of the very fast.

Again at the boundaries of the very small.

There are many boundaries we haven't prodded and probed yet. I hope for marvelous things near gravitational gradient = true zero. And energy density = zero. And temperature = zero. And others. Who knows what we may find.
Here's to hoping that somewhere near those borders we find a way to make FTL interstellar travel as easy and as common place as air travel is today and that I live long enough to enjoy it!
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Re: Teleporting rocket fuel as a Bose-Einstein condensate

You're proposing a receiver, right? Which needs a transmitter, right? And you're gonna fly your spaceship thing with fuel transmitted between the two, right?

So what's gonna happen when you're decellerating for touchdown on Ganymede and your contract expires?
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Question Charming questions from Top to Bottom, Strange when you look it Up and Down.

Hmm now that we have an idea, can you think of a test for it? If I remember right I've seen some work on resonant cavities and low-power long-range communication...I'll try and dig it up, but maby someone else can out google me.

Can you talk a little more about the length of the wave here clay; how long are we talking about? Could one posibly exploit the same priciple as say a pumped-l.a.s.e.r to make the wave "bounce" back and forth vs 2 sufaces of contolled permiability? Say 100vs 60 or 100vs 90 percent permiable? what sort of effect could we suppose this would have on such a dual-natured "particle"? Do you have the math to apply to such a supposition? Anyone?
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Old 06-30-2008
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Re: Charming questions from Top to Bottom, Strange when you look it Up and Down.

So to be able to make a BEC you need the atom in question to be a boson, since all the sub atomic particles in an atom have half integer spin they all need to line up in the right way to produce an integer spin particle. Most elements have at least one isotope in which this occurs.

If you want your fuel to be a molecule this can also be done, but it is much harder and the BEC's are much less stable as molecules have much more states close to the ground state, this makes it hard to keep all the molecules in the ground state.

So far the only way BEC's have being created is via laser cooling and to laser cool an atom it needs to have some distinct properties in its energy level configuration. It needs to have strong distinct absorption and emission lines around a wavelength of laser in which we can make.

All this said and done I dont see how that you can 'teleport' a BEC. Yes the quantum effects become macroscopic, but that does not make the BEC like an EM wave that can be easily transmitted and recieved..
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Old 07-03-2008
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Post How I think it could work, if it can work, which I don’t think it can

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All this said and done I dont see how that you can 'teleport' a BEC. Yes the quantum effects become macroscopic, but that does not make the BEC like an EM wave that can be easily transmitted and recieved..
Although I’m skeptical that it can, even in principle, be done, I’ll make an attempt to suggest how tinkering with de Broglie wavelengths, as occurs when making Bose-Einstein condensates, could be used in the way described in the original post.

For low velocities v, the dBw \lambda = \frac{h}{p} = \frac{h}{m v}, where h is Planck’s constant, and m is the mass of the fundamental or composite particle. Thus, if we can make v very small, such as by laser cooling a particle, we can make \lambda very large.

The wave function associated with \lambda gives the probability of the particle being located within a particular volume of space. So, if \lambda is very large, the probability of the particle being in an small volume of space is very small.

Wrestle around with the equations, and some much more daunting, somewhat epistemological problems involving quantum coherence, and we can assure that the probability of the particle being in a volume such as, say, Earth or the solar system, is nearly zero. In short, we can pull off a quantum vanishing trick.

A quick plugging of numbers for a single rubidium atom cooled to Cornell, Wieman Ketterle’s prize-winning temperature of 1.7e-7 K into the equation for temperature of a gas and de Broglie’s equation gives \lambda = 6.599e-5 m. So, to teleport our atom off Earth (about 1e8 m), it must be much cooler, about 1.3e-18 K. To teleport it more than a light-year, the temperature must be on the order of 1e-33 K.

That’s some pretty mind-boggling coldness!

Where BECs come into this, I think, is that, being much more massive than their constituent subatomic particles, but still being a single particle quantum mechanically, they should be easier to nudge around to reach mind-bogglingly low temperatures. So while their greater mass results in a shorter \lambda, their lower speed could more than counter that, allowing wave effects on a mind-boggling scale.

Where things start getting difficult (cooling things 30 orders of magnitude more than Nobel-prize winning efforts have achieved is the easy part! ) is when you stop focusing on assuring the to-be-teleported stuff is no longer on or near Earth, and start trying to assure it's in the catch-tank/receiver of the target spaceship. With much hand waving, this basically requires that you set up some sort of interference pattern with multiple particles, barrier-lenses, etc. so that there’s a region of constructive interference exactly where the target receiver is. I’ve not even started to consider how this could be done, but suspect it may be impossible.
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Re: How I think it could work, if it can work, which I don’t think it can

Excellent, excellent. We're half-way there, even though we think it impossible!!!
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