Prophesy II – a social experiment

freeztar · 08-11-2009

I really like the idea of crossing professions and mutual learning. It seems essential for continued stimulation aboard the Prophecy.

Good ideas all around. I'm humbled and hope I can add something in the future, writing-wise.

Donk · 08-11-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrotex

What gives? In one word: reliability. A complex system of valves controlled by trained people is more reliable than an identical system controlled by a computer program. The people are cheaper to train than an equivalent computer program would be to write. And as long as people are doing the controlling, they will understand what is going on. If a computer automation program snafus, in a ship where everybody spends most of their time on hobbies, then nobody understands what is going on. Nobody knows that valve MRV02-02 needs to be switched over. Everybody is at the mercy of some programmer back on Earth who, three years ago, had a fight with his girlfriend, got really hammered, and came into work the next morning with a freakin hangover and a bad attitude.

It used to be said that if NASA were to build an air-conditioning system for your house it would take ten years, cost a hundred million, and you'd barely have room to get indoors. They have a certain reputation for over-engineering...

If they've learned that astronauts can be more than just passengers and that the human brain is better for dealing with the unexpected than any amount of backroom brainstorming, then it sounds like they're finally getting it right

But I expect it's just a passing phase

freeztar · 08-11-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donk

It used to be said that if NASA were to build an air-conditioning system for your house it would take ten years, cost a hundred million, and you'd barely have room to get indoors. They have a certain reputation for over-engineering...

If they've learned that astronauts can be more than just passengers and that the human brain is better for dealing with the unexpected than any amount of backroom brainstorming, then it sounds like they're finally getting it right

But I expect it's just a passing phase

Not that this has anything to do with your post, but it might play into long-lived spaceship crew (and how that is influenced on Earth)

Hulu - Defying Gravity: Threshold - Watch the full episode now.

Boerseun · 08-11-2009

I like this thread.

It was mentioned a few posts back that part of the narrative could be that the news from Earth is doctored. This can very easily be done, seeing as no individual will have access to the outside of the ship, in other words, there will be no radio amateurs. All news will have to come from the Ship's Dish.

As far as the social aspects of this is concerned, what's wrong with a little propaganda?

Showing them how life sucks on Earth might just motivate them to go on looking for a new planetary paradise. What good, if any, would peaceful shots of green meadows and palm-strewn sandy beaches do?

A few generations down the line, those palmy beach shots might just make the new kids want to mutiny and turn around - until they realize there's no fuel to do it with, and it will never happen in their lifetimes, anyway. So the first crazy nutter decides on mass-suicide, 'cause that'll show those bastards back on Earth something...

TheBigDog · 08-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boerseun

I like this thread.

It was mentioned a few posts back that part of the narrative could be that the news from Earth is doctored. This can very easily be done, seeing as no individual will have access to the outside of the ship, in other words, there will be no radio amateurs. All news will have to come from the Ship's Dish.

As far as the social aspects of this is concerned, what's wrong with a little propaganda?

Showing them how life sucks on Earth might just motivate them to go on looking for a new planetary paradise. What good, if any, would peaceful shots of green meadows and palm-strewn sandy beaches do?

A few generations down the line, those palmy beach shots might just make the new kids want to mutiny and turn around - until they realize there's no fuel to do it with, and it will never happen in their lifetimes, anyway. So the first crazy nutter decides on mass-suicide, 'cause that'll show those bastards back on Earth something...

I was thinking of the same thing from the other perspective. In many ways the hopes and dreams of Earth are being carried with the ship. There was a global investment in this venture. The crew is filtering the reality of life on the ship from those on earth; presenting a picture of what earth wants to hear. But you are right, it would be happening from both ends. One of the things I was thinking of was that on the ship clothing becomes if not totally optional, at least very minimal by earth's standards. But having a bunch of nudists representing earth is not the image we want portrayed, so in visual communications with earth the crew wears familiar clothes to maintain an image, but otherwise go around in little more than loin cloths and what protection may be needed for certain jobs. Instead of private facilities there are public baths that become a social gathering point where mutual grooming helps to relieve stress and becomes a sort of social grace. This is a small town of 326 people ranging from infants to elderly, so there are few secrets in town, but what like Vegas, what happens on the Prophesy stays on the Prophesy (an unwritten rule). The fear on the ship is that without the proper public image the earth may stop investing in other interstellar ships, setting back the evolution of man by unknown years.

Bill

Pyrotex · 08-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donk

It used to be said that if NASA were to build an air-conditioning system for your house it would take ten years, cost a hundred million, and you'd barely have room to get indoors. ...

YES!!!

But it would run for 30 years on a single pair of D-cell batteries, and could withstand temperatures from -175 F to 195 F, vacuum to 10X Earth normal pressure, and would recycle your piss into perfectly clean water and ice cubes.

Pyrotex · 08-12-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBigDog

I was thinking of the same thing from the other perspective. In many ways the hopes and dreams of Earth are being carried with the ship. There was a global investment in this venture. The crew is filtering the reality of life on the ship from those on earth; presenting a picture of what earth wants to hear...

Hmmm...
300+ people would be loose of ALL Earthly constraints and expectations. All moral "rules" might collapse to just "Do no harm."

The goals of the "village" might change radically. Who's to stop them? They may decide to stop in the Oort cloud, mine a comet, and genetically alter themselves so they can tolerate the cold and vacuum. More realistically, they may decide on a eugenics program to breed humans for intelligence and emotional maturity. Wow. No more politicians.

They may arrive at their destination in 1,000 years and NOT be what WE would call "human" at all!

They might develop their own esthetic of what a human body should look like and be able to do. A thousand years is about 50 generations. We developed bulldogs and miniature poodles from wolves on Earth in about 100 generations.

Children can read by the age of two and are adept at mathematics by three. Huge brains, steerable ears, feathers instead of hair, bodies adapted for low to null gee, prehensile tails, thin short legs with feet that look and operate like hands. Musicians will write music for four hands! Guitar or piano. Guitar AND piano! Dancing and wrestling will be totally reinvented.

Everyone will have genitals of both genders and can bear young. Puberty occurs by seven; full growth by eight. Everyone has perfect skin and lovely breasts! The pictures sent home to Earth will have to be TOTALLY faked!!!

Donk · 08-15-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyrotex

Hmmm...
300+ people would be loose of ALL Earthly constraints and expectations. All moral "rules" might collapse to just "Do no harm."

The goals of the "village" might change radically. Who's to stop them? They may decide to stop in the Oort cloud, mine a comet, and genetically alter themselves so they can tolerate the cold and vacuum. More realistically, they may decide on a eugenics program to breed humans for intelligence and emotional maturity. Wow. No more politicians.

They may arrive at their destination in 1,000 years and NOT be what WE would call "human" at all!

They might develop their own esthetic of what a human body should look like and be able to do. A thousand years is about 50 generations. We developed bulldogs and miniature poodles from wolves on Earth in about 100 generations.

Children can read by the age of two and are adept at mathematics by three. Huge brains, steerable ears, feathers instead of hair, bodies adapted for low to null gee, prehensile tails, thin short legs with feet that look and operate like hands. Musicians will write music for four hands! Guitar or piano. Guitar AND piano! Dancing and wrestling will be totally reinvented.

Everyone will have genitals of both genders and can bear young. Puberty occurs by seven; full growth by eight. Everyone has perfect skin and lovely breasts! The pictures sent home to Earth will have to be TOTALLY faked!!!

Wrong. We've been breeding dogs from wolves for at least 12,000 years. That's 2,000-3,000 generations of dogs, not 100. All we've achieved in that time are size and coat changes, plus a few modifications like floppy ears instead of upright. No extra limbs, no mutant abilities. And that's working with a population in the millions.

With less than 400 people to work with, genetic experimentation would be too dangerous. Anything that gets done along those lines would be to help the expedition function better. The hedonistic mutations you suggest ... hedonism tends to come from boredom, and I doubt that our crew is going to have much time for that!