Go Back   Science Forums > Physical Sciences Forums > Space > Spaceship design
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-07-2006   #41 (permalink)
Janus's Avatar
Understanding


 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Re: Space Voyage #1

I actually did this for another similar project a couple of years ago, but I quess we can refurbish it for this mission. It is a lander explorer, that combines the viking lander with rover and return sample abilties.
It has three rovers that are roll down the shown ramps (the ramps are fold up during storage and landing).

Two lander mounted cameras

The small conical section jutting up from the middle is part of the ascent capsule for sample return. It launches and returns to the ship while leaving the main body of the lander behind. This was orginally done for a Europa probe mission, so the image is of the lander sitting on the surface of Europa, with Jupiter in the background.

Reply With Quote
Old 05-07-2006   #42 (permalink)
Jay-qu's Avatar
Ancora Imparo

Moderator
Editor
Gallery Curator

Location:
Australia
 
Jay-qu has a reputation beyond reputeJay-qu has a reputation beyond reputeJay-qu has a reputation beyond reputeJay-qu has a reputation beyond reputeJay-qu has a reputation beyond reputeJay-qu has a reputation beyond reputeJay-qu has a reputation beyond reputeJay-qu has a reputation beyond reputeJay-qu has a reputation beyond repute
 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Re: Space Voyage #1

nice! what program do you use for these Janus?


----------------
Jay-qu
::Hypography Moderator of..
Chemistry, Physics & Mathematics, Astronomy & Cosmology, Space and Technology & gadgets Forums

"I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday."
-Abraham Lincoln

Physics Guides - Physics Resources and help
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2006   #43 (permalink)
Janus's Avatar
Understanding


 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Re: Space Voyage #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-qu
nice! what program do you use for these Janus?
I use Pov-Ray.
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2006   #44 (permalink)
TheFaithfulStone's Avatar
Rockin'


 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Re: Space Voyage #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janu
I use Pov-Ray
Translation:
I'm a masochist.

That is the hardest of cores, dogg.

TFS


----------------
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2006   #45 (permalink)
GAHD's Avatar
Creating

Administrator

Location:
Winterpeg, Manitoba
 
GAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant future
Send a message via ICQ to GAHD Send a message via AIM to GAHD Send a message via MSN to GAHD Send a message via Yahoo to GAHD
 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Re: Space Voyage #1

I dunno if I'd say hardest of cores, but that does blow my sloppy use of Max outta the water.

We should start a new thread about 3D programs


----------------
Sometimes a Hypography Forum Administrator



"With a big enough engine, even a brick will fly." -Law of Aerospace
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2006   #46 (permalink)
TheFaithfulStone's Avatar
Rockin'


 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Re: Space Voyage #1

Have you ever used POV-Ray? There's no modeller! It's a description language. Doing anything with more than a dozen primitives is just...

it's just...

words....

should... have.. sent... a poet.

TFS

check it...www.spaceartbydavid.com

In BRYCE. You should challenge this guy to a space-ship off or something... you could both do it while sitting on a palette of hot coals having your toenails pulled out by hideous demons. Or you could use Pov-Ray and Bryce.


----------------
There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.

Last edited by TheFaithfulStone; 05-08-2006 at 11:44 AM..
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2006   #47 (permalink)
Pyrotex's Avatar
Slaying Bad Memes

Moderator
Editor

Location:
Houston, Texas
Latest blog entry:
 
Pyrotex has a reputation beyond reputePyrotex has a reputation beyond reputePyrotex has a reputation beyond reputePyrotex has a reputation beyond reputePyrotex has a reputation beyond reputePyrotex has a reputation beyond reputePyrotex has a reputation beyond reputePyrotex has a reputation beyond reputePyrotex has a reputation beyond reputePyrotex has a reputation beyond reputePyrotex has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Pyrotex
 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Re: Space Voyage #1

To wrap up a few questions and loose threads.

Electrical power. We need an Energizer Bunny on steroids. One way of doing this is to have powerful magnetic coils surrounding a flow of plasma. The rocket exhaust is plasma. So a percentage of our thrust could be sacrificed to draw power.

We won't be thrusting ALL the time folks. We really don't need 100 years of continuous thrust. 100 thrust-days should do it. Remember, 1 [ONE] thrust-day gives us a delta-V of between 150,000 and 200,000 MPH. 3 thrust-days should push us well over 500,000 MPH, we cruise unpowered to Jupiter in 6 months, and 3 thrust-days to decellerate into orbit. Is that good enough??

What about power when we are not thrusting? We need a nuclear thermal reactor. It will have to be shielded. Sorry. I'm gamma intolerant, and if you don't shield the reactor, I won't be able to go. {sniff} Fortunately, a 5 megawatt reactor core should only be the size of a volkswagon bus. It should be mounted on the nose of our ship like a loooooong radio antenna boom, with generators, reactor and a disk-like shield way out in front, well away from protoplasm.

Or we can use balonium, which is as light as parafin wax and will stop any radiation.

Changing course is gonna be a bitch. Sorry. The rotating hab-pods, you know. Have you ever put a bicycle wheel on a ten-inch axle--hold the axle with by either end--spun the wheel up real fast--and tried to change the pointing direction of the axle??? It is incredibly difficult--and the axle wants to move at right angles to the force you are exerting. Lotsa fun.

So, we must assume we de-spin the ship for flip-overs and all other course corrections. I'm fulla bad news today. Oh, well, just say that the crew gets two days of zero gee for recreation and amusement.

We could "store" unused electrical power by separating water into H2 and O2, then recombine as need to supply power and water.

How do we get the goshawful goddammerungen specific impulse (fuel efficiency) we need to keep our fuel ratio down below 20%-40%??? Using it for heat is not good enough. We need the efficiency we get in a tamper & implosion squeeze device.

I have one word for you: lasers. The fuel is powdered, mixed well, and coated in plastic. Each grain of powder is uniformly coated. Many large tanks of powder, shielded with balonium. The grains are individually ionized, shot down an electric rail-gun, and as it enters one of the firing chambers, a 1 nanosecond burst of laser light from all sides hits the grain, vaporizing the plastic explosively, and squeezing the powder grain down to half its normal volume. KABOOM! 1 ton equivalent high explosives. Just off the top of my ass, we need to burn maybe 1,000 grains per second. Easy sneezy. Half our thrust goes to power the lasers and refill our H2/O2 tanks.

That's all I can think of for now.


----------------
Hypography Forums Moderator
-- - - - - -
What concerns me is not the way things are, but rather the way people think things are.
Epictetus, Greek Philosopher
The map is NOT the territory.
Korzybski, Polish-American Philosopher

Last edited by Pyrotex; 05-08-2006 at 03:43 PM..
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2006   #48 (permalink)
TheBigDog's Avatar
Doing the Impossible

Moderator
Gallery Curator

Location:
Madison, OH (when not in fantasy land)
 
TheBigDog has a reputation beyond reputeTheBigDog has a reputation beyond reputeTheBigDog has a reputation beyond reputeTheBigDog has a reputation beyond reputeTheBigDog has a reputation beyond reputeTheBigDog has a reputation beyond reputeTheBigDog has a reputation beyond reputeTheBigDog has a reputation beyond reputeTheBigDog has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to TheBigDog
 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Re: Space Voyage #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotex
Electrical power. We need an Energizer Bunny on steroids. One way of doing this is to have powerful magnetic coils surrounding a flow of plasma. The rocket exhaust is plasma. So a percentage of our thrust could be sacrificed to draw power.
...

What about power when we are not thrusting? We need a nuclear thermal reactor. It will have to be shielded. Sorry. I'm gamma intolerant, and if you don't shield the reactor, I won't be able to go. {sniff} Fortunately, a 5 megawatt reactor core should only be the size of a volkswagon bus. It should be mounted on the nose of our ship like a loooooong radio antenna boom, with generators, reactor and a disk-like shield way out in front, well away from protoplasm.
I would go with the nuclear thermal reactor. It should be able to exist within the main tank surrounded by shielding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotex
Changing course is gonna be a bitch. Sorry. The rotating hab-pods, you know. Have you ever put a bicycle wheel on a ten-inch axle--hold the axle with by either end--spun the wheel up real fast--and tried to change the pointing direction of the axle??? It is incredibly difficult--and the axle wants to move at right angles to the force you are exerting. Lotsa fun.

So, we must assume we de-spin the ship for flip-overs and all other course corrections. I'm fulla bad news today. Oh, well, just say that the crew gets two days of zero gee for recreation and amusement.
We will not need to "unspin". The spin gives us a great deal of inherent stability for aiming at a distant point and getting there. And making for a very stable ride for the crew. I have an idea to utilizing control plates on the exhaust bell to use the nuclear explosions pushing the ship to help steer it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotex
We could "store" unused electrical power by separating water into H2 and O2, then recombine as need to supply power and water.
With the "vw bus" supplying power we won't need batteries, will we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotex
How do we get the goshawful goddammerungen specific impulse (fuel efficiency) we need to keep our fuel ratio down below 20%-40%??? Using it for heat is not good enough. We need the efficiency we get in a tamper & implosion squeeze device.

I have one word for you: lasers. The fuel is powdered, mixed well, and coated in plastic. Each grain of powder is uniformly coated. Many large tanks of powder, shielded with balonium. The grains are individually ionized, shot down an electric rail-gun, and as it enters one of the firing chambers, a 1 nanosecond burst of laser light from all sides hits the grain, vaporizing the plastic explosively, and squeezing the powder grain down to half its normal volume. KABOOM! 1 ton equivalent high explosives. Just off the top of my ass, we need to burn maybe 1,000 grains per second. Easy sneezy. Half our thrust goes to power the lasers and refill our H2/O2 tanks.

That's all I can think of for now.
That is pretty much how I was thinking of it. I am struggling to figure out how we protect the lasers from the steady stream of nuclear detonations.

You are also right about us not needing 100 years of thrust. But I think we should examine what a misson of say 5-10 years, visiting all the outer planets and moons would require thrust wise. Without having to do fancy orbital boost trick shots to get from place to place. (although that looks like a fun ride)

Another thoughtful post Pyro. Another step closer to a working ship?

Bill (t-24)


----------------
aka TheBigDog - Hypography Full Freaking Moderator
Become a Hypography sponsor!
The truth is incontravertible; malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end there it is. - Winston Churchill

TheBigDog's recommended reading: The Science of Success - Charles G. Koch

A neutron goes into a bar and asks the bartender, "How much for a beer?"
The bartender replies, "For you, no charge."
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2006   #49 (permalink)
KickAssClown's Avatar
A Person


Location:
Here and now
 
KickAssClown is a name known to allKickAssClown is a name known to allKickAssClown is a name known to allKickAssClown is a name known to allKickAssClown is a name known to all
Send a message via MSN to KickAssClown Send a message via Yahoo to KickAssClown
 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Re: Space Voyage #1

Some thoughts regarding designs.

For enrichment I thought that a Solar collector would perhaps work to "revilatize" our Waste fuel. Not like Solar arrays to collect Electricity but to collect solar radiation and replete our depleted fuel.

For Power generation once again Nuclear Fuel, As well as Solar Arrays. What is the surface area that we can use of the ship itself to collect? Also How about Orbital Tows, you know collect power through a series drag cables.

As for changing course, couldn't we compenstate for our turning problem by channeling that power into our system, using Gyroscopic stabilization?

Oh and I would like to vote that Janus be made Chief Engineer and Head Physicist. I'm theoretical applications, it's clear to me that Pyrotex and Janus outrank me.

For course I would purpose a visit to Mars followed by a jump to Jupiter. We could perhaps launch a Probe into the Inner asteroid belt while we are at it.

thoughts everyone?
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2006   #50 (permalink)
GAHD's Avatar
Creating

Administrator

Location:
Winterpeg, Manitoba
 
GAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant futureGAHD has a brilliant future
Send a message via ICQ to GAHD Send a message via AIM to GAHD Send a message via MSN to GAHD Send a message via Yahoo to GAHD
 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Re: Space Voyage #1

Hmm, Is there a way to focus solar rays onto the spent fuel? now that'd be an interesting thing, especially if you flew in say, around the orbit of mercury. Could a magnetic sail do it? Kinda like a magnetic lense...


----------------
Sometimes a Hypography Forum Administrator



"With a big enough engine, even a brick will fly." -Law of Aerospace
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2D vs 3D Space... Boerseun Strange Claims Forum 5 01-12-2006 07:16 PM
What IS space? sergey500 Astronomy and Cosmology 214 12-10-2005 01:54 AM
space. jettlarue Physics and Mathematics 2 09-09-2005 11:05 PM
Is space something or nothing? geeteenodubya Astronomy and Cosmology 12 12-06-2004 08:07 AM
what is space? sanctus Physics and Mathematics 11 07-18-2004 02:21 PM

» Advertisement
» Current Poll
Who's the sexiest man alive? Johnny Depp or Robert Pattinson?
Johnny Depp - 27.27%
3 Votes
Robert Pattinson - 0%
0 Votes
Someone else (please specify) - 45.45%
5 Votes
I'm too macho to think a guy is sexy - 27.27%
3 Votes
Total Votes: 11
You may not vote on this poll.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:45 PM.

Hypography?

Hypography [n.]: A combination of "hyperlink" and "bibliography" - ie, a list of links to electronic documents. Comparable to discography and bibliography, but not cartography.

We have been online since May 2000, and aim to be the best place to find and share science-related content of all kinds.

Share the love!

Please add more science to your life. Use our RSS feeds on your blog, your portal, or your favorite feedreader!


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.2
Copyright © 2000-2009 Hypography
Part of the Hypography - Science for Everyone Network