Space Voyage #1

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Old 05-07-2006
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Re: Space Voyage #1

I actually did this for another similar project a couple of years ago, but I quess we can refurbish it for this mission. It is a lander explorer, that combines the viking lander with rover and return sample abilties.
It has three rovers that are roll down the shown ramps (the ramps are fold up during storage and landing).

Two lander mounted cameras

The small conical section jutting up from the middle is part of the ascent capsule for sample return. It launches and returns to the ship while leaving the main body of the lander behind. This was orginally done for a Europa probe mission, so the image is of the lander sitting on the surface of Europa, with Jupiter in the background.

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Old 05-07-2006
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Re: Space Voyage #1

nice! what program do you use for these Janus?
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Old 05-08-2006
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Re: Space Voyage #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay-qu
nice! what program do you use for these Janus?
I use Pov-Ray.
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Old 05-08-2006
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Re: Space Voyage #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janu
I use Pov-Ray
Translation:
I'm a masochist.

That is the hardest of cores, dogg.

TFS
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Old 05-08-2006
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Re: Space Voyage #1

I dunno if I'd say hardest of cores, but that does blow my sloppy use of Max outta the water.

We should start a new thread about 3D programs
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Old 05-08-2006
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Re: Space Voyage #1

Have you ever used POV-Ray? There's no modeller! It's a description language. Doing anything with more than a dozen primitives is just...

it's just...

words....

should... have.. sent... a poet.

TFS

check it...www.spaceartbydavid.com

In BRYCE. You should challenge this guy to a space-ship off or something... you could both do it while sitting on a palette of hot coals having your toenails pulled out by hideous demons. Or you could use Pov-Ray and Bryce.
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Old 05-08-2006
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Re: Space Voyage #1

To wrap up a few questions and loose threads.

Electrical power. We need an Energizer Bunny on steroids. One way of doing this is to have powerful magnetic coils surrounding a flow of plasma. The rocket exhaust is plasma. So a percentage of our thrust could be sacrificed to draw power.

We won't be thrusting ALL the time folks. We really don't need 100 years of continuous thrust. 100 thrust-days should do it. Remember, 1 [ONE] thrust-day gives us a delta-V of between 150,000 and 200,000 MPH. 3 thrust-days should push us well over 500,000 MPH, we cruise unpowered to Jupiter in 6 months, and 3 thrust-days to decellerate into orbit. Is that good enough??

What about power when we are not thrusting? We need a nuclear thermal reactor. It will have to be shielded. Sorry. I'm gamma intolerant, and if you don't shield the reactor, I won't be able to go. {sniff} Fortunately, a 5 megawatt reactor core should only be the size of a volkswagon bus. It should be mounted on the nose of our ship like a loooooong radio antenna boom, with generators, reactor and a disk-like shield way out in front, well away from protoplasm.

Or we can use balonium, which is as light as parafin wax and will stop any radiation.

Changing course is gonna be a bitch. Sorry. The rotating hab-pods, you know. Have you ever put a bicycle wheel on a ten-inch axle--hold the axle with by either end--spun the wheel up real fast--and tried to change the pointing direction of the axle??? It is incredibly difficult--and the axle wants to move at right angles to the force you are exerting. Lotsa fun.

So, we must assume we de-spin the ship for flip-overs and all other course corrections. I'm fulla bad news today. Oh, well, just say that the crew gets two days of zero gee for recreation and amusement.

We could "store" unused electrical power by separating water into H2 and O2, then recombine as need to supply power and water.

How do we get the goshawful goddammerungen specific impulse (fuel efficiency) we need to keep our fuel ratio down below 20%-40%??? Using it for heat is not good enough. We need the efficiency we get in a tamper & implosion squeeze device.

I have one word for you: lasers. The fuel is powdered, mixed well, and coated in plastic. Each grain of powder is uniformly coated. Many large tanks of powder, shielded with balonium. The grains are individually ionized, shot down an electric rail-gun, and as it enters one of the firing chambers, a 1 nanosecond burst of laser light from all sides hits the grain, vaporizing the plastic explosively, and squeezing the powder grain down to half its normal volume. KABOOM! 1 ton equivalent high explosives. Just off the top of my ass, we need to burn maybe 1,000 grains per second. Easy sneezy. Half our thrust goes to power the lasers and refill our H2/O2 tanks.

That's all I can think of for now.
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Last edited by Pyrotex; 05-08-2006 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 05-08-2006
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Re: Space Voyage #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotex
Electrical power. We need an Energizer Bunny on steroids. One way of doing this is to have powerful magnetic coils surrounding a flow of plasma. The rocket exhaust is plasma. So a percentage of our thrust could be sacrificed to draw power.
...

What about power when we are not thrusting? We need a nuclear thermal reactor. It will have to be shielded. Sorry. I'm gamma intolerant, and if you don't shield the reactor, I won't be able to go. {sniff} Fortunately, a 5 megawatt reactor core should only be the size of a volkswagon bus. It should be mounted on the nose of our ship like a loooooong radio antenna boom, with generators, reactor and a disk-like shield way out in front, well away from protoplasm.
I would go with the nuclear thermal reactor. It should be able to exist within the main tank surrounded by shielding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotex
Changing course is gonna be a bitch. Sorry. The rotating hab-pods, you know. Have you ever put a bicycle wheel on a ten-inch axle--hold the axle with by either end--spun the wheel up real fast--and tried to change the pointing direction of the axle??? It is incredibly difficult--and the axle wants to move at right angles to the force you are exerting. Lotsa fun.

So, we must assume we de-spin the ship for flip-overs and all other course corrections. I'm fulla bad news today. Oh, well, just say that the crew gets two days of zero gee for recreation and amusement.
We will not need to "unspin". The spin gives us a great deal of inherent stability for aiming at a distant point and getting there. And making for a very stable ride for the crew. I have an idea to utilizing control plates on the exhaust bell to use the nuclear explosions pushing the ship to help steer it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotex
We could "store" unused electrical power by separating water into H2 and O2, then recombine as need to supply power and water.
With the "vw bus" supplying power we won't need batteries, will we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotex
How do we get the goshawful goddammerungen specific impulse (fuel efficiency) we need to keep our fuel ratio down below 20%-40%??? Using it for heat is not good enough. We need the efficiency we get in a tamper & implosion squeeze device.

I have one word for you: lasers. The fuel is powdered, mixed well, and coated in plastic. Each grain of powder is uniformly coated. Many large tanks of powder, shielded with balonium. The grains are individually ionized, shot down an electric rail-gun, and as it enters one of the firing chambers, a 1 nanosecond burst of laser light from all sides hits the grain, vaporizing the plastic explosively, and squeezing the powder grain down to half its normal volume. KABOOM! 1 ton equivalent high explosives. Just off the top of my ass, we need to burn maybe 1,000 grains per second. Easy sneezy. Half our thrust goes to power the lasers and refill our H2/O2 tanks.

That's all I can think of for now.
That is pretty much how I was thinking of it. I am struggling to figure out how we protect the lasers from the steady stream of nuclear detonations.

You are also right about us not needing 100 years of thrust. But I think we should examine what a misson of say 5-10 years, visiting all the outer planets and moons would require thrust wise. Without having to do fancy orbital boost trick shots to get from place to place. (although that looks like a fun ride)

Another thoughtful post Pyro. Another step closer to a working ship?

Bill (t-24)
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Old 05-08-2006
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Re: Space Voyage #1

Some thoughts regarding designs.

For enrichment I thought that a Solar collector would perhaps work to "revilatize" our Waste fuel. Not like Solar arrays to collect Electricity but to collect solar radiation and replete our depleted fuel.

For Power generation once again Nuclear Fuel, As well as Solar Arrays. What is the surface area that we can use of the ship itself to collect? Also How about Orbital Tows, you know collect power through a series drag cables.

As for changing course, couldn't we compenstate for our turning problem by channeling that power into our system, using Gyroscopic stabilization?

Oh and I would like to vote that Janus be made Chief Engineer and Head Physicist. I'm theoretical applications, it's clear to me that Pyrotex and Janus outrank me.

For course I would purpose a visit to Mars followed by a jump to Jupiter. We could perhaps launch a Probe into the Inner asteroid belt while we are at it.

thoughts everyone?
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Old 05-08-2006
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Re: Space Voyage #1

Hmm, Is there a way to focus solar rays onto the spent fuel? now that'd be an interesting thing, especially if you flew in say, around the orbit of mercury. Could a magnetic sail do it? Kinda like a magnetic lense...
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