[Buffy]

Originally Posted by kalesh

Why? Just using the plan binds me to an agreement where I can't show it to anyone, even in photo or video (I'm not even supposed to show it to my family and friends ).
This raises some questions.

I'll say! What did you sign? Can you even let us see the agreement? How did this work? Did you send them money and then they sent you an agreement to sign and then they sent it to you? Does it have a shrinkwrap agreement?

The most fascinating thing about this is that an "agreement not to disclose" indicates that they have not submitted it for a patent. Once you do so, you need to freely publish it so that others have the chance to show prior art or other reasons why a patent should not be issued. That would indicate that they have no faith that it would pass muster with the patent office...

In any case it looks like its been out there a while, and again, no one has done anything practical with this thing, even under license. Why?

Now the big issue in discussing it here is that the implementation is hiding behind a whole bunch of intricate electronics, which makes it difficult to asscertain whether any of the values you've stated above are valid. You've mentioned measuring the voltage supplied but not the amperage, so we're still in the dark on the energy consumption rates.

How's about asking them how the technology is being used? Who has licensed it so far? How long have they been in business? Why don't we see any applications of it?

Must be a conspiracy by the oil companies,
Buffy

[kalesh]

Originally Posted by Buffy

I'll say! What did you sign? Can you even let us see the agreement? How did this work? Did you send them money and then they sent you an agreement to sign and then they sent it to you? Does it have a shrinkwrap agreement?

To tell you the truth I do not know exactly what a shrinkwrap agreement is but from what I have been able to google out, Yes it is a shrinkwrap agreement.

The agreement and the plans are actually the same pdf document, and by reading the plans you are bound by the agreement. Since they are the same document if I put the agreement here I will have to put the plans as well which means I can't. But I will put quotes from the document.

Quotes from license agreement.

If
you decide to build this motor / engine, build it
for your own use only and keep it from family,
friends and the News Media. The Fuelless
Engine is a spin off of the Ed Grey Motor as well
as a combination of our own designs as well as
The Newman design. This motor is like no other
electric motor in the world. You can run this
motor on 300 to 1,000 volts dc, (using a special
coil design as well as the designs included in
these plans.)
Please Keep all of this information to yourself!
When Free Energy Electric Motors are allowed
to be manufactured here in the USA we will
show you how to get even more free
energy from your motor than ever
thought possible! But for security and Patent
reasons we can not reveal to you all our
secretes But we will keep your on file and let you
know of any updates we can safely share.

By buying these plans and opening this envelope, you agree to keep this information
contained in these plans to yourself, you agree not to try and manufacture this engine or show
a working model to the news media, unless you get permission from us. We have redesigned
this engine and therefore have rights to this information, anyone trying to copy these plans or
Manufacturing the fuel less engine without our permission will face legal action. #362-RC is
Copy written 2002. (You can build them for your own use.)

These plans are for your eyes only! This invention has been suppressed by very powerful people,
persons and companies that I can not reveal to you. This invention holds US Patents and these plans
are protected. Copyrighted. Let me put it this way, No free energy device at this present time, 2003, can
be manufactured or sold anywhere in the world. Believe me we have already tried several times and it is
not worth it. But as a back yard researcher you can build discover, research and build any free energy
device you want just as long as you keep it You can build this engine and any other free
energy device we sell the plans to for your own personal use only! It would be very wise and safer for
you and your family to keep it under lock and key, A good idea is to build yourself a secure Generator
room that is well kept under lock and key as well as an alarm system.
Again all of our plans and videos we sell are protected! If we catch anyone reselling them or giving them
away copies thereof, we will take legal action against you and anyone else involved.

You can also never show a working Free Energy device such as this one, to anyone in the news media! I have already tried
that anyway, I just caused myself more heartache and trouble. I could go on and on but there is so much I can not tell
anyone! My lab and my home have been broken into many times, My phone constantly bugged! My life threatened! I have
been researching free energy for over 10 years and I know from experience what I am talking about!

Originally Posted by Buffy

The most fascinating thing about this is that an "agreement not to disclose" indicates that they have not submitted it for a patent. Once you do so, you need to freely publish it so that others have the chance to show prior art or other reasons why a patent should not be issued. That would indicate that they have no faith that it would pass muster with the patent office...

In the plans they say its patented but don't provide patent number or anything, so I can't say much.

Originally Posted by Buffy

In any case it looks like its been out there a while, and again, no one has done anything practical with this thing, even under license. Why?

Maybe because the only license they give is summarized as "make it, use it for yourself and never show it to anyone".

Originally Posted by Buffy

Now the big issue in discussing it here is that the implementation is hiding behind a whole bunch of intricate electronics, which makes it difficult to asscertain whether any of the values you've stated above are valid. You've mentioned measuring the voltage supplied but not the amperage, so we're still in the dark on the energy consumption rates.

I know its hiding behind a bunch of electronics but I can't reveal too much about the electronics as it will be akin to revealing their plans. as for the amperage, sorry my bad. I just started it up and measured it, voltage is still in same range and amperage reads 0.2 (sorry I cant give a more accurate reading as it fluctuates with voltage, and right now I don't have the complex equipment)

Originally Posted by Buffy

How's about asking them how the technology is being used? Who has licensed it so far? How long have they been in business? Why don't we see any applications of it?

Must be a conspiracy by the oil companies,
Buffy

I think most of these questions should be addressed directly to them. But they do mention in the plan that some very powerful people and companies are suppering the invention.

[Boerseun]

They took you for a ride, and didn't patent their machine.

From the US Patent and Trademark Office:

Originally Posted by USPTO

What cannot be patented:

* Laws of nature
* Physical phenomena
* Abstract ideas
* Literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works (these can be Copyright protected). Go to the Copyright Office.
* Inventions which are:

* Not useful (such as perpetual motion machines); or
* Offensive to public morality

...and that's about it.

Also, if they didn't attach a patent number, it's most obviously a scam. Did they only supply you with plans for it? And you're not allowed to show them to anybody? I have to say, although you've been taken for a ride, it's a rather gutsy and ballsy scam, to say the least. How much did you pay for it?

[kalesh]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

They took you for a ride, and didn't patent their machine.


Also, if they didn't attach a patent number, it's most obviously a scam. Did they only supply you with plans for it? And you're not allowed to show them to anybody? I have to say, although you've been taken for a ride, it's a rather gutsy and ballsy scam, to say the least. How much did you pay for it?

I paid $70US for it.
But if its a scam then good for me, bad for them! Because if its a scam that means that they probably did not get the engine to work. And that means that the engine only worked with my modifications!! (I never actually tried it as exactly depicted in the plans).
That means that once I scale up power I just maybe able to start manufacturing and selling them.
Hmm.. I think I'll have to see a lawyer once I scale it up.

[CraigD]

As best I can tell, this sketch, by disgruntled customer and “free energy researcher” Don Adsitt, diagrams the essentials of Free energy motors and generators’s (Creative Science & Research) ”vortex engine”. With the exception of their ”gravity engine”, a classic perpetual motion fraud design, all of their electric motors appear to be variations of this design.

Adsitt tells this unhappy tale, including email exchanges, of his experiences with fuellesspower.com. The company has a colorful history, including several changes in name, and long criminal histories of several of it’s partners, notably Dennis Lee and Paul Pantone.

Kalesh’s claims notwithstanding, there’s no credible evidence that devices like the fuelless engine do anything other than any electric engine – convert electric power into mechanical motion, at less than 100% efficiency. Creative Science & Research appears to be a fraudulent company intent on cheating gullible, poorly educated people, despite efforts of state consumer protection agencies and prosecutors to prevent them.

Though scientifically uninteresting, students of marketing may find the history of their website interesting, as they’ve creatively repackaged and repriced their products (All plans for various devices and mixtures) for the past 7 years.

[Moontanman]

We could use your help in building the prototype and putting this technology to work for all of us. Your membership with N-Motion Vehicle Company is more than just funding the car. It your chance to change your future, just think about all the money you will save not having to buy gas.

It looks like I have been doing it all wrong, being an honest decent person isn't how it's done! All I really need is some crazy confusing ideas, a web site, and lots of people with more sense than money! I knew there had to be an easier way! I wonder if I can get my own dealership?

Michael

[patmac]

Yeah, perpetual totally and exagerated is impossible, but with this topic about impossible we are closing the doors to something logic, the fuellessengine and panderev are a good ways to get free energy, imagine run your car only with the battery for one hudred miles for example, that is a good energy by each dollar, the battery is possible recharge them with solar panel, or in your house, because in your house you can have a panderev for example and recharge the battery.... This is feasible, and is like nuclear energy but without bad radiation. Imagine use this motor in your car for generate hydroxy (HHO) on demand for using it in your normal gasonline explosion engine....

Open us our minds..... Perpetual motion 100% is only the ideal model, but those motors are a good chance.... and satisfy our energy demand for transport and house.