"Electromagnetic waves" do NOT EXIST!!!

[martillo]

"Electromagnetic waves" do NOT EXIST!!!

Demonstration: Electromagnetic waves do not exist

NOTE:
The "waves equation" is a linear differential equation of second order and so only two solutions are possible: infinite planes with constant electric and magnetic fields in the entire plane! Not any other kind of solution is accepted.

[Jay-qu]

This is just silly and wrong.

The solutions give spherical plane waves that move with velocity c.

This is a classical theory, which works very well when considering macroscopic (and some microscopic systems if you are careful). It isnt until you get down to a small level that the nature of the discreteness of the EM field becomes evident.

Moving to strange claims.

[martillo]

Sorry but you are totally wrong and being silly.
The possible solutions to the second order differential equation for the "electromagnetic waves" derived from Maxwell's equations are two plane waves one moving in one direction and the other in the opposit direction:
E(x,t) = E(kx-vt)
B(x,t) = B(kx-vt)

Actually (kx +/- vt)

Review the math of them!

Now, if I'm right are you going to move the thread back to the Physics and Math forum?

[ronthepon]

Originally Posted by martillo

Sorry but you are totally wrong and being silly.
The possible solutions to the second order differential equation for the "electromagnetic waves" derived from Maxwell's equations are two plane waves one moving in one direction and the other in the opposit direction:
E(x,t) = E(kx-vt)
B(x,t) = B(kx-vt)

Actually (kx +/- vt)

Review the math of them!

Now, if I'm right are you going to move the thread back to the Physics and Math forum?

Um, Isn't that for a... like... one-D consideration only?

:P

[martillo]

ronthepon:

Um, Isn't that for a... like... one-D consideration only?

No, they are the general solutions wich are independent of the "y" and "z" coordinates what means infinite plane waves.

Come on, haven't you ever heard about "plane electromagnetic waves"?

I can't believe this...

[ronthepon]

Let me take a moment to get to wiki about this.

Electromagnetic radiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They've got a derivation similar to the one I'd studied.

What they get to after some derivation is:

and


your solution:
E(x,t) = E(kx-vt)
B(x,t) = B(kx-vt)

applies if we consider only the x coordinate.

Try applying the thing in polar, with 'r'. What do you get? Take a moment to derive the result yourself.

Come on, haven't you ever heard about "plane electromagnetic waves"?

I can't believe this...

Whaile yeah, I have heard... I really don't know what's unbelieveable.

[Jay-qu]

I ask you to consider Ron's post carefully, this is what I am getting at.

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by martillo

"Electromagnetic waves" do NOT EXIST!!!

Demonstration: Electromagnetic waves do not exist

NOTE:
The "waves equation" is a linear differential equation of second order and so only two solutions are possible: infinite planes with constant electric and magnetic fields in the entire plane! Not any other kind of solution is accepted.

Rather than approach this claim by suggesting an error in Maxwell's equations and other generally accepted descriptions of electromagnetism, I think it’s more useful to consider the proposed alternative.


The offered webpage Electromagnetic waves do not exist is part of a larger document, “A New Light in Physics”. With regards to light, this document proposes a simple Emission theory of light, in which the speed of light in vacuum is not constant, but depends of the speed of its emitter relative to its receiver.

As the preceding wikipedia link summarizes, despite the long history of emission theories (Newton’s ca. 1700 “corpuscle theory” being among the best known), by around 1920, their failure when compared to experimental data largely eliminated them from serious scientific consideration.

Most sources describing the history and present-day rejection of emission theories summarize objections to them in terms of experimental data available around 1900 and earlier. IMHO, an easier to understand set of data is available to us now, via the GPS, which, using very sensitive timing devices not available a century ago, routinely performs direct light travel time measurments. GPS satellites have ground-relative speeds on the order of 4000 m/s, and light travel times on the order of 0.09 sec. If, as predicted by emission theory, the speed of a photon was c + v, where v is the speed of its emitter, we would expect GPS positions involving certain ground positions, satellites, and times to be inaccurate by a few hundred meters, unless adjusted for by the system. However, according to every source I’ve read (I’ve not actually directly examined GPS satellite or receiver software) the system makes no such adjustment, and typical GPS equipment is accurate to within about 15 m.

Given the large amount of high-precision experimental data supporting the constant speed of light predicted by classical electromagnetism and postulated by special relativity, and contradicting emission theory, I don’t think a convincing argument can be made for the emission theory of light.

[martillo]

ronthepon and jay-qu:

Try applying the thing in polar, with 'r'. What do you get? Take a moment to derive the result yourself.

I don't need to make this. A linear differential equation of second order can have only two solutions. If you try other sistems of coordinates you will get the same solutions expressed in the new systems of coordinates. The natural system for a plane is the carthesian system (x,y,z), in a polar system the results appear much more complicated.

[martillo]

CraigD:
First of all I don't suggest an error in Maxwell's equations, I propose that the conclusion of the existency of the electromagnetic waves which start from Maxwell's equations is wrong. This is very different.
Second, you are deviating the scope of this thread, which is to discuss the existency of the electromagnetic waves, to a discussion if light velocity is constant or not. This is not my intention and may be you woud like to open a new thread for this.
You haven't presented any rationat refutation to my demonstration that "electromagnetic waves" do not exist.