[Overdog]

I have to agree with Moontanman. In addition to the the kinds of friction he mentions, there is also friction due to tidal forces of gravity. Every time the earth rotates in the gravitational fields of the Sun and Moon, it is stretched a little bit. This stretching creates friction in the earth, and robs the earth a tiny amount of its rotational energy.

The moon keeps the same face pointed towards the earth all the time. How likely is it that this is a coincidence? It isn't, because tidal forces have long since robbed the moon of whatever rotational momentum it might have once had.

See:
Does the moon rotate?

Likewise, although tidal forces from distant objects and galaxies are very weak, they nevertheless do exist, and rob the planets of some tiny amount of orbital momentum. As well, gravitational waves predicted by Einstein are created by bodies orbiting one another. This too slowly robs orbital momentum. So, even in the absence of the kind of friction Moontanman has mentioned, the momentum of EVERYTHING is always being robbed a tiny bit because of gravity.

[modest]

Originally Posted by ryan2006

It is interesting that you call the universe a black hole. If that was the case we allready would have attracted a second universe. And that is what I had been saying in my theory about the universe going through a wormhole anyway since blackholes have the capabilities to create wormholes. The question is how does this relate to perpetual motion because you have allready indicated that a blackhole will stop mass and matter. However, a blackhole is still traveling through space and time which mean perpetual motion exists+

As Moontanman has already pointed out, there is a distinctive difference between what is normally thought of as a perpetual motion machine and the perpetual motion of bodies that go unresisted. These are actually two different topics.

A perpetual motion machine attempts to draw useful energy from some mechanism without inhibiting the machine's ability to continue generating that power in its closed system. Historically a very large number of people have attempted to capitalize on this idea and have never been successful. The first law of thermodynamics makes unlikely such a thing will ever happen.

What you've been discussing is Newton's fist law of motion often simply referred to as inertia. If a body is put in motion, it will continue in that motion until some force acts to stop it. Same goes for a body at rest. These are two different topics which have in common the imprecise title "perpetual motion" making statements like the title of this thread somewhat vague. Nevertheless, these two topics are in fact perfectly consistent with each other.

~modest

[Moontanman]

It is interesting that you call the universe a black hole. If that was the case we allready would have attracted a second universe.

The universe is everything, there can not be a second universe. If indeed there are other parts to our universe how can you say we haven't attracted another "universe" maybe it just hasn't gotten here yet.

And that is what I had been saying in my theory about the universe going through a wormhole anyway since blackholes have the capabilities to create wormholes.

Black holes create worms holes? That is completely unfounded speculation. recent theories have all but excluded the possibility of wormholes.

The question is how does this relate to perpetual motion because you have allready indicated that a blackhole will stop mass and matter. However, a blackhole is still traveling through space and time which mean perpetual motion exists+

Black holes do not stop anything they are mass and matter, even black holes are not perpetual, they evaporate and they are also subject to friction and entropy.

[modest]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

The universe is everything, there can not be a second universe. If indeed there are other parts to our universe how can you say we haven't attracted another "universe" maybe it just hasn't gotten here yet.

Closer, I think, to a white hole.

Here's a really good page on this topic:

Is the big bang a black hole?

~modest

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by modest

Closer, I think, to a white hole.

Here's a really good page on this topic:

Is the big bang a black hole?

~modest

I think my idea of the universe being a black hole might be out dated. The premise, if i understand it correctly, was that the universe is closed by gravity so that nothing can escape the event horizon of the universe similar to a black hole. Have "whites" been observed or inferred from observational evidence like black holes have?

[modest]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

IHave "whites" been observed or inferred from observational evidence like black holes have?

No they've not been observed. A white hole is just a time reversal of a black hole. As gravity is always attractive and time is unidirectional, we've not expected to see nor have we seen a white hole. A white hole is a bit better than a black hole as an analogy to our universe because the singularity is in the past, but neither work very well. For one thing, holes aren't isometric as our universe is. Also, holes are static.

Then again, I probably shouldn't have commented being it's way off topic [gulp]

~modest

[GAHD]

on the original topic of perpetual motion, there's only one instace I've seen: water on the beach.

Next time you're out enjoying the sand and watching the kids build castles pay attention to the ones who want to build a "moat" around it. if they dig down enough they'll reach a point a little above water level where the water is sponged up by the sand (surface tension works wonders on those scales), and their moat will self-fill to a certain level. if they dig a trench from that litle moat-pit to the lake, water will continuously flow out in a trickle. "perpetual" motion, of a sort. Seems we tap this along quite a few rivers...old tech that.

[ryan2006]

The closest I have come to combining perpetual motion to a perpetual mechanism is my spherical magnetic ball and nobody had really commented on it.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by ryan2006

The closest I have come to combining perpetual motion to a perpetual mechanism is my spherical magnetic ball and nobody had really commented on it.

I guess that's because you weren't all that clear on what it was supposed to do or what powered it.

[ryan2006]

O.K. Here it goes! A magnetic spherical ball that has an outer thickness and it hollow on the inside. Two options from there. One, a magnetic liquid solution inside the hollow set into orbit around the earth. Second option, magnetic balls inside the hollow. Conductors run through the outer shell. so that as it orbits it is creating electromagnetic energy.