Perpetual motion does exsist

[ryan2006]

Thanx a lot for putting this in the strange claims even Ludwig had a vehicle that turned out to fly!

[modest]

Originally Posted by ryan2006

Yes, motion won't change if acted on by another force, but are you considering that everything is in motion. My interpretation of Sir Isaac Newton had in mind objects not large bodies such as the universe.

Ryan, many of the people with whom you are conversing are expertly qualified on this subject. It would benefit you to put more effort into understanding their explanations. Doing so could only help you refine your ideas and give them a good foundation.

You seem to be either unwilling or unable to separate different concepts or apply a concept only where it's appropriate. It has been pointed out many times that Newton's first law of motion as you keep describing is different from perpetual motion such as you envision with your rotating spheres.

Newton's laws say that an object in motion will tend to stay in motion until a force acts on it to change its motion or stop it. You give examples such as the Earth and Moon and claim those are examples that support a perpetual motion machine or eternal power generation. However, "staying in motion" and "generating power" are not the same thing. Generating power is a force that acts against the motion creating the power. This has been explained to you many times and I don't think I would be able to do a better job of explaining it. I just want to stress that what people are saying is very well established. It has been tested again and again and it is a fundamental law of thermodynamics.

You also seem unwilling to distinguish between things in the universe and the universe itself. The idea that a satellite will tend to stay in orbit until forces bring it down doesn't lead to an eternal universe. Just like perpetual motion doesn't lead to God. You are making huge jumps in inductive reasoning.

I know this sounds very critical, but I say it in hopes that you can adjust the way you approach physics giving more realistic and useful answers.

Originally Posted by ryan2006

Now you say that light stops. No it doesn't. It bent around the sun when gravity proved to bend light, it refracts and it bounces off object, but it is always moving. Where do you get your information? I got mine from school both k-12 and college of which I spent 3 and 1/2 years.

Photon's don't bounce. If you want to understand what really happens when a photon interacts with a mirror you're going to have to learn some quantum mechanics. Here is an online video lecture on the quantum mechanics of photons and mirrors that would get you started:

The Vega Science Trust - The Douglas Robb Memorial Lectures - Science Video Lectures.. - Freeview Video

Originally Posted by ryan2006

No, I am no expert and I realize that you folks don't like when someone comes along and tells you something different. My simple evidence has been that light speed is constant at 186,000 m/sec2

The speed of light is 186,282 miles per second or 299,792,458 meters per second. When you say "m/sec2" it reads "meters per second squared" There is no "squared" in a speed.

Originally Posted by ryan2006

and light motion is a constant speed which means that perpetual motion exists.

Jumps or leaps in logic like this are the problem. It's like saying gold is yellow in color so leprechauns exist. The link that Buffy gave for inductive reasoning would be helpful. If you were to work hard at curtailing your inductive reasoning and try to think in terms of deductive reasoning I believe it would really help you draw better conclusions.

Originally Posted by ryan2006

So, now that I am working on a workable hypothesis I just need to investigate a little more perhaps a lifetime. If I am creating a new law here don't brush this thread off as "strange claims" because it is science I went to a religious college that studied science so please forgive me if I include God in my work.

Having your thread moved to strange claims is not a reflection upon you. This just means your idea is outside the norm and lacks a proper scientific approach. I believe these are things you can work on which is why I gave you the advice above. Besides, you say yourself: "I am creating a new law here". So, this is the correct forum to discuss this.

I also hope you don't dismiss my post here as offensive. I believe if you adjusted your approach to science a bit as I've tried to describe above you would have much better success.

~modest

[ryan2006]

I thank you for your advice it is helpful and I look at it as constructive and definetly not offensive. I guess it is because I am growing older.

I would like to know how Newton would say that motion stops? To me that is impossible given my viewpoint from the religious college I attended which would probably support eternal world, at least a non-physical one.

My idea of an eternal cosmos could never be proved we just don't have the technology now in in any kind of future. Eternal faith is how I overcome this. So as a matter of science no I could not prove that Newton is wrong nor could you prove me wrong either. But I disagree with Newton that the world will come to a stop based on physics I believe the physical and spiritual world are intertwined and theirfore based upon faith I am convinced that motion won't stop.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by ryan2006

I thank you for your advice it is helpful and I look at it as constructive and definetly not offensive. I guess it is because I am growing older.

I would like to know how Newton would say that motion stops? To me that is impossible given my viewpoint from the religious college I attended which would probably support eternal world, at least a non-physical one.

My idea of an eternal cosmos could never be proved we just don't have the technology now in in any kind of future. Eternal faith is how I overcome this. So as a matter of science no I could not prove that Newton is wrong nor could you prove me wrong either. But I disagree with Newton that the world will come to a stop based on physics I believe the physical and spiritual world are intertwined and theirfore based upon faith I am convinced that motion won't stop.

If you were taught this view point as science in college then the educational system is in more trouble than I thought. Let me guess, Intelligent Design is real science?

[questor]

What about the movement of electrons around a nucleus of an atom. If the life of the atom is infinite, isn't the movement of the electron also in ''perpetual motion''?

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by questor

What about the movement of electrons around a nucleus of an atom. If the life of the atom is infinite, isn't the movement of the electron also in ''perpetual motion''?

I think you're mistakenly looking at this under the old Bohr model. Electrons behave quantum mechanically, and it's not really accurate to suggest they are "moving around the nucleus."

[questor]

I understand the electron cloud around the nucleus. What powers them and why would they stop moving?

[InfiniteNow]

Huh? Are you looking for a god answer or something?

Also, electrons don't stop moving, so I'm just totally confused, and I'm pretty sure it's your fault.

[questor]

If the electrons are moving, what makes them move, and what would make them stop? If they do not stop, would this not be perpetual motion?

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by questor

If the electrons are moving, what makes them move, and what would make them stop?

Electrons are charged particles in an electric field. This creates the motion.

If they do not stop, would this not be perpetual motion?

That's a very good question. I'm sure someone else can answer this better than I, but I'll give it a go.

Inertia. Electrons can bump into other particles or nuclei and transfer momentum/energy. I'm not sure if you would say that they "stopped", but energy and mass are conserved in any case.