[ryan2006]

Have you ever noticed that the sun comes up and the sun goes down while the moon goes around the earth. The stars and galaxies are also in motion. This is convincing evidence of perpetual motion or motion that never stops.

Albert Einstein wrote a book called time warp I have never read it, but, a time warp, suggests that motion are different speeds while overall motion is constant.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by ryan2006

Have you ever noticed that the sun comes up and the sun goes down while the moon goes around the earth. The stars and galaxies are also in motion. This is convincing evidence of perpetual motion or motion that never stops.

Albert Einstein wrote a book called time warp I have never read it, but, a time warp, suggests that motion are different speeds while overall motion is constant.

Given enough time even the planets will fall into the sun from friction with gases and other objects in space. All stars will end up inside black holes at the center of galaxies. there is no perpetual motion unless the universe is open ended then the expansion of space time will go one forever. the real point is that to tap into the energy of even orbiting planets will slow them down. When we use gravity sling shots to accelerate space craft the planets we use slow down a tiny bit. Never something for nothing, even in space.

[ryan2006]

Let me tell you what I know. First of all, even if a planet falls into the sun because of friction the rest of the universe or universes and all that is in it or them will continue to be in motion unless "God ends time!"

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by ryan2006

Let me tell you what I know. First of all, even if a planet falls into the sun because of friction the rest of the universe or universes and all that is in it or them will continue to be in motion unless "God ends time!"

All motion is affected by friction, even stars and galaxies. The universe might not exist long enough for all macro motion to stop due to friction but it would if it had the time!

[ryan2006]

O.K Mr. Friction, perpetual energy does not exist because energy is always converted from one form to another. What kind of universal friction are you talking about? The kind that expands the universe to it's threshold before going back to a singularity? I said the universe went through a wormhole and my model of the universe is eternal. How can you possible say that time would end because of friction?

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by ryan2006

O.K Mr. Friction, perpetual energy does not exist because energy is always converted from one form to another. What kind of universal friction are you talking about? The kind that expands the universe to it's threshold before going back to a singularity? I said the universe went through a wormhole and my model of the universe is eternal. How can you possible say that time would end because of friction?

I didn't say time would end I said every thing would slow down due to friction. Friction with gas, dust, radiation. as the universe approaches heat death everything would be sequestered away in black holes which would evaporate into electron positron pairs orbiting each other at a distance of about a light year. Eventually even they would collide and the universe would be made of nothing but photons slowly loosing energy and growing redder and redder. Friction or entropy always wins.

[Moontanman]

BTW I really don't think the universe will die from heat death, I am sure it will recycle way before that could happen, probably from colliding branes. (I think the BB is an illusion but not many here would agree with me)

[ryan2006]

Light still shines in the heavens and black holes would have allready consumed the light if they were that gravitationally strong.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by ryan2006

Light still shines in the heavens and black holes would have allready consumed the light if they were that gravitationally strong.

A black holes strength has noting to do with what I was talking about. In some ways our entire universe can be described as a black hole. as the universe ages more and more material will end up in back holes. But black holes are not forever, they evaporate as electron/positron pairs. If this is taken to it's logical extreme the universe would consist of nothing but photons slowly red shifting into lower and lower wave lengths until they are at their lowest possible state. but this is an extreme example, if the universe is closed it will contract way before this could happen. If brane theory is correct our brane will collide with another brane and both will be full of new energy and matter again. Of course there is also steady state theory but that seems unlikely.

[ryan2006]

It is interesting that you call the universe a black hole. If that was the case we allready would have attracted a second universe. And that is what I had been saying in my theory about the universe going through a wormhole anyway since blackholes have the capabilities to create wormholes. The question is how does this relate to perpetual motion because you have allready indicated that a blackhole will stop mass and matter. However, a blackhole is still traveling through space and time which mean perpetual motion exists+