[goku]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Yes goku that's true, but somehow that mess up wasn't on a par with the priests and preachers who use their place of authority to molest children was it? Somehow dedicated people who make an honest mistake isn't quite as disturbing as dedicated people planning evil is it? I do not have any problem with you insinuating science is my religion, I take it as a complement.

you're right there is absolutely no excuse for the wrongs that were done and are being done.

and if i must i'll be the first to say that those evil people are not christians nor have they known the Father

[modest]

Originally Posted by goku

you're right there is absolutely no excuse for the wrongs that were done and are being done.

and if i must i'll be the first to say that those evil people are not christians nor have they known the Father

Do you have some evidence that Christians are morally superior to non-Christians? I think you need to clearly state why you believe people who do great evil are not true Christians. Is it just a personal belief you have with nothing to back it up?

~modest

[goku]

Originally Posted by modest

Do you have some evidence that Christians are morally superior to non-Christians? I think you need to clearly state why you believe people who do great evil are not true Christians. Is it just a personal belief you have with nothing to back it up?

~modest

no, not superior
christian means Christ like
to be a christian is to be like Christ
molestors are not Christ like

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by goku

no, not superior
christian means Christ like
to be a christian is to be like Christ
molestors are not Christ like

Goku, I know (or at least hope) you mean well in your idea that anyone who does wrong is not a Christian but do you see the contradiction in what you are saying and why it is a self fulfilling prophecy? I see it all the time with Christians and probably other religions as well. You include everyone who says they are a Christian but then when they do wrong you automatically say they were not Christians. I've seen a preacher who molested children at a local church and not only was he having sex with underage girls in the church he was also having sex with several of the mothers. Then when one father tried to have him arrested the whole Church went to the preachers aid and tried their best to keep him from going to jail, saying he was forgiven and shouldn't go to jail for molesting all those 12 to 16 year old girls. He finally went to jail even though most of the girls recanted their statements of abuse because their families made them and then the Church took him back as preacher when he got out of jail!Or in the case of the televangelist who was caught having a sexual affair with another man then said it was demon possession that made him do it and the Church took him back, or the priests who molested children and the church covered it up. Science on the other hand is always looking for mistakes, if evolution was a mistake it would be turned over, many changes have been made in the theory since it was first proposed and as new evidence comes in more changes will be made. Religion covers up it's mistakes and tries to hide it's inconsistencies, the sex scandals may seem unfair to show this but it does show how inconstant and loath to admit mistakes the church really is. Science looks for problems, sometimes the process can be slowed down by stubborn people, sometimes people make claims that are not true, sometimes people even cheat but the changes do occur no matter how earth shattering they are. Because ferreting out those bad ideas and applying the good ideas so they can instigate change is a big part of what science is. Religion wants things to remain static, discourages free thinking or investigations of it's dogma. Christians can do no wrong because if they do they cannot have been Christians, this policy allows anything to happen with out the church and it's members taking responsibility. Not a good thing goku, take responsibility for the bad before you claim the good, nothing else is tolerable.

[REASON]

Originally Posted by goku

no, not superior
christian means Christ like
to be a christian is to be like Christ
molestors are not Christ like

There's nothing Christ like in advocating pre-emptive militarism.
There's nothing Christ like in finding satisfaction in killing.
There's nothing Christ like in turning your back on the weak, the sick, and the poor.
There's nothing Christ like in promoting or sustaining corporate greed.
There's nothing Christ like in intolerance and bigotry.
There's nothing Christ like in destroying natural habitats to avoid changing your behavior.
There's nothing Christ like in continually stroking your ego.
There's nothing Christ like in dishonesty, or the tolerance of it among your so called friends.

There's nothing Christ like in claiming to be Christ like.

[Mercedes Benzene]

Originally Posted by REASON

There's nothing Christ like in advocating pre-emptive militarism.
There's nothing Christ like in finding satisfaction in killing.
There's nothing Christ like in turning your back on the weak, the sick, and the poor.
There's nothing Christ like in promoting or sustaining corporate greed.
There's nothing Christ like in intolerance and bigotry.
There's nothing Christ like in destroying natural habitats to avoid changing your behavior.
There's nothing Christ like in continually stroking your ego.
There's nothing Christ like in dishonesty, or the tolerance of it among your so called friends.

There's nothing Christ like in claiming to be Christ like.

Masturbation is not Christ-like.

[goku]

i am not perfect nor could i ever be. i try to be like Christ but i know i sin every day.

any church where such things has happened, i strongly recomend that you not go there.

there are many, many fake churches out there and from what you have said here i know that you can spot them

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by goku

i am not perfect nor could i ever be. i try to be like Christ but i know i sin every day.

any church where such things has happened, i strongly recomend that you not go there.

there are many, many fake churches out there and from what you have said here i know that you can spot them

That's my exact point goku, when religion, churches, or what ever start not only admitting they can do wrong but also stops covering up that wrong I will take them seriously. Until then this constant denial and cover ups is what allows this rot to fester in these societies. I really don't care if they are right or wrong about God, I really don't care if they believe evolution or not or even if they want to teach their kids BS that cannot stand the test of reality what really bothers me is how religion is used as a cover for real evil and religion allows this to spread and grow by denying it's existence in their own midst and covers it up to keep it from being stamped out by real law enforcement that really does try to protect people from these evil people. Just like the dude who was shooting doctors because he didn't want them to perform abortions. The people (religious people) covered and protected him for along time instead of stepping forward and helping him be caught. It really didn't matter if they supported abortion or not, whether or not the doctors were violating the law of the land didn't even count. What mattered was that this man was murdering people. He decided to be judge jury and executioner and the "church going people" protected him, protected a terrorist!. Because terrorist was exactly what he was! The church has a lot of cleaning to do in their own house before they can even think of criticizing anyone else who makes mistakes. And standing and saying "well my church wouldn't do that!" is nothing but a cop out!