Spooky Physics: Signals Seem to Travel Faster Than Light

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by freeztar

Indeed. Quantum entaglement does not imply super-luminal speeds. Boerseun explained this well imo.

I agree, boerseun's bricks did indeed explain it quite well, no action at a distance at all....... unless you get to choose the color of the brick on earth and therefore change the color of the brick at Jupiter.

[Overdog]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Sooo, instantaneous isn't superluminal? I'm really trying to understand this, I'm not just being stubborn.

You're in good company. Einstein was pretty stubborn about it too.

Edit:

What I mean is "No Problem..."

[Overdog]

Here's another article I found...

BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Teleportation breakthrough made

And another:

Quantum telecloning: Captain Kirk's clone and the eavesdropper

[Moontanman]

The multi particle teleportation looks like a different animal to me or at least a much more complex one. I still don't see how the brick analogy is instantaneous transfer of a color.

[Moontanman]

Ok, you have two bricks, both have to be the same color but you don't know what color. You send one to Jupiter then you uncover the brick at home and you instantly know the color of the brick at Jupiter. That is not teleportation of information or anything else, it's just the ways things are, common sense. Now if you have the two separated bricks and you choose the color of one and it determines the color of the other then you have faster than light information exchange, you can call it teleportation or anything else but information has been transmitted faster than light. all of those more complex things in the links simply make it more complex not clearer. Now what is wrong with these analogies? Or is my interpretation of these analogies?

[TheBigDog]

Understanding entanglement is one of the missing links. Making it useful is the step after that. The two (or more) particles behave as one regardless of their physical separation.

Lets take Boerseun's example in a different light. I have two entangled particles that are shot in different directions. One particle passes through a gizmo that gives it positive spin. When that happens the other particle simultaneously gets negative spin - no travel, no time delay, they are the same particle regardless of what we would call distance. In software we would call this a "feature", not a bug - despite its apparent violation of the rules. If I were to entangle two laser beams so they were streams of entangled photons, and I were to pass one beam through a filter that changed it light frequency, I would observe a simultaneous change in the paired beam at the same distance from the source. At least that is how I understand it. The problem is that all of this happens at the quantum level, and there is so much other mystery there that cause and effect is always somewhat mysterious. I think that instantaneous communications will someday be realized through this strange natural phenomena, but we have years of research before we get there.

Bill

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by TheBigDog

Understanding entanglement is one of the missing links. Making it useful is the step after that. The two (or more) particles behave as one regardless of their physical separation.

Lets take Boerseun's example in a different light. I have two entangled particles that are shot in different directions. One particle passes through a gizmo that gives it positive spin. When that happens the other particle simultaneously gets negative spin - no travel, no time delay, they are the same particle regardless of what we would call distance. In software we would call this a "feature", not a bug - despite its apparent violation of the rules. If I were to entangle two laser beams so they were streams of entangled photons, and I were to pass one beam through a filter that changed it light frequency, I would observe a simultaneous change in the paired beam at the same distance from the source. At least that is how I understand it. The problem is that all of this happens at the quantum level, and there is so much other mystery there that cause and effect is always somewhat mysterious. I think that instantaneous communications will someday be realized through this strange natural phenomena, but we have years of research before we get there.

Bill

Ok, I see what you are getting at, so you can choose the "color" of the brick after it leaves your lab? Can you change it back and forth in a pattern if you don't look at it? It's beginning to look a lot like faster than light communication!

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

its not about speed, or traveling over distance's it is
Instantaneous.

It's not FTL in (perhaps) the same way (or at least a mental-model similar way) that a worm hole is not FTL. That's how I think of it anyways...

Just to note, we are all speaking in layman's terms about a subject that mostly evades such "easy to nail down" descriptions.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by freeztar

It's not FTL in (perhaps) the same way (or at least a mental-model similar way) that a worm hole is not FTL. That's how I think of it anyways...

Just to note, we are all speaking in layman's terms about a subject that mostly evades such "easy to nail down" descriptions.

Obviously I need to try harder to understand it, to me it looks like an assumption that has got out of hand. I can see the higher dimension idea quite well but I've been told so many times there is no such thing it's difficult to bring that one back to life. Lets not stop here but go on, I will get my mind around it eventually.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Obviously I need to try harder to understand it, to me it looks like an assumption that has got out of hand. I can see the higher dimension idea quite well but I've been told so many times there is no such thing it's difficult to bring that one back to life. Lets not stop here but go on, I will get my mind around it eventually.

I do not think anyone has got their mind completly around this as yet. Our minds just are not capable to grasp quantum level particle physics. What we can do however is attempt to leave the Newtonian framwork behind and accept that the building bocks of reality are not separate solid objects, but more akin to how we see a spectrum light, that the world we think we know so well my in fact be a hologram.