All the Truth about 2012

[BLUE ELECTRIC MONKEY]

I'll add two things:

First, to explain:
We can explain all the phenomenon using Pareidolia:
pareidolia is "clinically defined" as looking for patterns and seeing patterns where none exist, like faces in the rain, and animals in the clouds, and so forth.
we can also define it in terms of numbers, without the "clinical" consideration, considering the option that some meaning might be there after all:
Number-pareidolia, is about looking for such patterns in numbers.
Dates-Number-pareidolia is about such patterns in numbers of dates.
Numerology is about giving numbers a meaning which is not a mathematical meaning.
(compare "4 means love" to "4 is not prime", both can be seen as result of basic number-pareidolia processes)

Now let's look at the 9/11 and 2012 obsessions with these definitions:
Let's think about this like this:
It is Pareidolia.
All over the world people try to find their number connections using pareidolia, some more, some less, some always, some never.
If humans associate destruction with numbers only using pareidolia, after a few thousand years, you can have two options:
1. If some numbers are indeed more connected to destruction for the mind, globally, they will appear in more cases of pareidolia. If those numbers are not connected to a specific language, they will appear in more cases of pareidolia in different cultures with different language and with different calenders.
2. If all numbers are equally subject to pareidolia as far as destruction goes,
people will find it hard to agree on any set of numbers.

Now, what does the process of pareidolia want to accomplish ?
It wants to give a symbolic meaning to a number.
Let's look at a peridoliac person from the outside.
He tells you "4's makes me love things, 4 is all about love for me, all the girls I loved had so much 4's in their names and lives" and so on.
He says: 4 symbolizes love. (and he can add: to me, to you, to everyone, to our people, to men, for now at least, and so on, while the common to all saying, is giving a symbolic meaning to a number, which is not a mathematical meaning).
All over the world, all cases of pareidolia, are trying to do that.
Now, if a 9/11 combo somehow means destruction for enough people.
(This could be very subtle, even if out of 100 cases, only 5 are 9/11 combos, if it's the most common combo in the list, it's the one with the most accumulating affect, over thousands of years)
what will happen with a "natural" process of pareidolia ?
The symbol will be more accepted as a symbol of destruction.
Right now, the 9/11 concept is a symbol of destruction in the language, and in more than one calender.
From all possible pariedolia going on, that's the one that convinced most people to see some symbolic connection, consciously, between a 9/11 combo in the year, and with destruction.
Nobody forces you to fear the combo, or to look for it, or any other pareidolic activity, but it forces you to see what is the accepted meaning of the combo in language, if you wish to understand language like others.
How does this match the nowadays ?
Why is from all dates of destruction only the 9.11 is remembered with the date, and with the combo ? why is there so much pareidolia about it than ever before ? why can't we explain the 2012 obsessions saying that in this period of time, dates are more charming than ever which causes a specific stream of pareidolia, if we can somehow define charm ?

Secondly,
About theories that claim that the ending of the Mayan calender signifies the End of something in Nature:

As far as I know, the Mayan calender, or, more correctly, the different versions of the different Mayan calenders, don't state in the calender the end of the world, they simply end.
If you use a circular counting system, (unlike the christian counting which could go on forever mathematically, but like the Hebrew one), your calender ends sometime.
It's usually a long cycle, always long enough in history for "never ending while the culture using it is still a living culture"
Even if it's not a circular calender, it can use cycles, like any other calender.
In the normal count, the dates' digits are circular, and so are the months', only the years go in a linear way.
If I create a practical Christan calender for the next 1000 years, it will end sometime (in a 1000 years), because I only used a cycle of a 1000 years, which I could use again and again as the same calender, for the next 1000 years, I just didn't see a reason to put more than 3 digits in the year.
When we reach 10000, if we still use this counting, we could go in 2 directions:
Either starting to use 5-digits years, which will change the calender in the practical sense (think of computers all regarding years with 4 digits)
or we will simply ignore the initial 1, and keep writing (and talking) about a 4 digit concept, with all of us in perfect understanding, without a sense of change of calender (as might happen it we start thinking about years as a 5-digit-thing). If we go that road, we actually just start the counting all over again from 0 to 9999, actually making the christian counting a circular one which completed a cycle, and we start using it from the beginning again (without forgetting of course that it's the 2nd cycle)
Maybe the Mayan calender(s) is also something like that.
We can Imagine it if we think of it as an "extended-year-calender".
Most use, for practical reasons, a calender for the year alone.
It's a calender that ends, and you use it again (quite the same version), again and again, whenever it ends.
Maybe this is how the Mayan calender goes, it just doesn't end on the year, but on the far far future, in a way that doesn't really frighten anyone, any more than the fears you might feel when the year's calender is over.
Actually, all the possible psychological fears of "the year is changing, the end of the calender seems like some kind of an end to me", will not happen in a Mayan calender, where the symbolic emphasis of the End, is in the far far future, not in every year.
Maybe this is the price to be paid
The Mayans perhaps fear less when the year is over, because they have a very different understanding of "when time/calender ends", so they don't have to celebrate the changing of each year with Light and Trees and Family-Love and other versions of Christmas, which potentially decrease the global "fear", but on the other hand, when their calender finally ends, all accumulated fears of the End, are all focused at a one ending point.
And maybe some kind of Ritual, is finally needed.

(If Christmas is when Christian celebrate the birth of Christ on their version of the main ritual which is connected to the the year changing / ending in the calender, then what is the analogy now that the Mayan's ending ? do we need a bigger celebration in this bigger End ? Could this explain some more-Christ-Is-Coming beliefs-?
This doesn't have to be because the Mayan calender ends.
As I showed, the Christian counting is the one changing in 2012 in its affect. This is a kind of End in the Christian calender itself. So should we be more anxious for redemption, more believing that now is the time of his coming to the world, or should we all just try to have the most appropriate Christmas-Celebration-Analogy ?

[pamela]

hi EBM,
I think it important to remember that a calender of any origin is man made. Time is a unit of measure.Certainly useful in predicting when to plant, harvest and such, but should not be used as a crystal ball. We can only guestimate the future, there are too many variables that can change the outcome. You mention Christianity and the return of His coming. Even He, does not know the day or the hour. Yet, alot of groups want to lay out the plan for him. It would seem that even God does not subscribe to the concept of time, as it is written that " a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day" I certainly do not want to walk in fear of possible catastrophies that may or may not happen in my life time. I want to enjoy today. I can breathe acceptable air, eat somewhat healthy food, enjoy the starry night and the wind passing thru my holly bush. Tomorrow could be a nice video and soylent green.

[CraigD]

It’s kinda cool to look at the count of “charmed” dates (per BEM’s definition) per year for the past a future few centuries:

1900 20
1901 20
1902 0
...5...
1908 0   (7)
1909 20
1910 20
1911 36
1912 12
1913 3
...4...
1918 3
1919 36  (21)
1920 0
1921 12
1922 12
1923 0
...4...
1928 0
1929 12
1930 0
1931 3
1932 0
1933 3
1934 0
...3...
1938 0
1939 3
1940 0
1941 3
1942 0
1943 0
1944 3
1945 0
...2...
1948 0
1949 3
1950 0
1951 3
1952 0
1953 0
1954 0
1955 3
1956 0
1957 0
1958 0
1959 3
1960 0
1961 3
1962 0
...2...
1965 0
1966 3
1967 0
1968 0
1969 3
1970 0
1971 3
1972 0
...3..
1976 0
1977 3
1978 0
1979 3
1980 0
1981 3
1982 0
...4...
1987 0
1988 3
1989 3
1990 20
1991 36
1992 12
1993 3
...4...
1998 3
1999 36
2000 90
2001 40
2002 89
2003 11
2004 10
...3...
2008 10
2009 9
2010 40
2011 40
2012 40  (25)
2013 0   
...5...
2019 0   (7)   
2020 90
2021 40
2022 89
2023 11
2024 10
...3...
2028 10
2029 9
2030 11
2031 0
2032 11
2033 11
2034 0
...4...
2039 0
2040 10
2041 0
2042 10
2043 0
2044 10
2045 0
...3...
2049 0
2050 10
2051 0
2052 10
2053 0
2054 0
2055 10
2056 0
...2...
2059 0
2060 10
2061 0
2062 10
2063 0
2064 0
2065 0
2066 10
2067 0
2068 0
2069 0
2070 10
2071 0
2072 10
2073 0
...2...
2076 0
2077 10
2078 0
2079 0
2080 10
2081 0
2082 10
2083 0
...2...
2087 0
2088 10
2089 0
2090 9
2091 0
2092 10
2093 0
...3...
2098 0
2099 9
2100 40
2101 40
2102 40
2103 0
...5...
2109 0
2110 40
2111 69
2112 69
2113 13
2114 12
...4...
2119 12
2120 40
2121 69
2122 69
2123 13
2124 12
...4...
2129 12
2130 0
2131 13
2132 13
2133 13
2134 0
...5...
2140 0
2141 12
2142 12
2143 0
2144 12
2145 0
...4...
2150 0
2151 12
2152 12
2153 0
2154 0
2155 12
2156 0
...3...
2160 0
2161 12
2162 12
2163 0
2164 0
2165 0
2166 12
2167 0
...2...
2170 0
2171 12
2172 12
2173 0
...2...
2176 0
2177 12
2178 0
2179 0
2180 0
2181 12
2182 12
2183 0
...3...
2187 0
2188 12
2189 0
2190 0
2191 12
2192 12
2193 0
...4...
2198 0
2199 12
2200 89
2201 40
2202 89
2203 11
2204 10
...3...
2208 10
2209 9
2210 40
2211 69
2212 69
2213 13
2214 12
...4...
2219 12
2220 90
2221 69
2222 118
2223 24
2224 22
...3...
2228 22
2229 21
2230 11
2231 13
2232 24
2233 24  (35)
2234 0

A lot of “special” periods appear, including the current run of 25 years with at least 1 charming date, 1988-2012, with it’s peak year of 2000 (90 charming days), and peak 3-years 2000-2002 (219 charming days), and the period BEM notes from 2010-2012 (120 charming days). The next period that out-charms it is the 35 year period 2219-2233, with peak year 2222 (118 charming days) and peak 3-years 2220-2222 (277 charming days).

As for there being a significant cause and effect relationship between the number of numerals that appear in a western date and human individual or group behavior, this would be a tough theory to support. You’d have to define significant events and a way of detecting them that avoids conformational bias, and even if some correlation could be found, you’d have a theory without obvious reliable post-dictive value (for example, the 4/6/1994 – 7/14/1994 Rwandan Genocide, something that would have been beneficial to have been able to predict, occurred on none of 1994’s 3 charmed dates) and less common-sense appeal than the discredited idea that more crimes occur on night with full moons than nights without. Supporting an un-obvious claim empirically can be very difficult.

The Mesoamerican Long Count calendar date 13.0.0.0.0 = Dec 21, 2012 connection is interesting, too, but easy to dismiss as coincidence. Especially interesting to me on the subject is the uncertainty as to the exact correlation between the western (Gregorian) calendar and the Long Count, in which various contemporary historians arrived at differences between Aug 11 3314 BC and 0.0.0.0.0 LC from 584280 to 584285 days, settling on a consensus of 284283.

A couple of questions about Symbology’s numerology post

Originally Posted by Symbology

9 is the immutable number in base 10. (1 in base 2, 3 in base 4, 7 in base 8) A catalyst. It changes things without itself being changed.

I don’t get this. Since the usual numerology technique of summing digits is equivalent to modulo 9 arithmatic, adding 9 or “I” a number or name doesn’t change it (eg: Craig -> 3+18+1+9+7=38 -> 2; Craiiiig -> 3+18+1+9+9+9+9+7=65 -> 2). I don’t follow how this is metaphorically a catalyst. Explanation?

Originally Posted by Symbology

11 is one of the two power numbers in numerology. 22 being the other. The name Paul for example is an 11.

I don’t get this, either. Paul -> 16+1+21+12=50 -> 5. How can you get 11 out of it – or, for that matter, get any number greater than 9 - from traditional digit summing?

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by BLUE ELECTRIC MONKEY

About theories that claim that the ending of the Mayan calender signifies the End of something in Nature:

As far as I know, the Mayan calender, or, more correctly, the different versions of the different Mayan calenders, don't state in the calender the end of the world, they simply end.
If you use a circular counting system…

The Mayan’s and Other pre-conquest Mesoamerican cultures had a lot of calendars, but the one usually referred to in this context is the Long Count calendar. It’s believed to have been used at least as early as Dec 12, 36 BC (7.16.3.2.13 LC). LC dates are simply positional numbers, with each position a digit from 0 to 19, except the 2nd least significant position, which is from 0 to 17.

There LC calendar doesn’t run out of dates on Dec 21, 2012, but rather just increments its most significant digit to advance from 12.19.19.17.19 to 13.0.0.0.0. So Jan 1, 2013 is 13.0.0.0.11. The last time this happened was 12.0.0.0.0 LC, which is believed (with some uncertainty, as noted in my previous post) to correspond to Sep 18, 1618. While there may have been some wild partying and something like millennial madness around that date, it’s fairly clear Mesoamericans knew the world didn’t end every time the LC date rolled over its most significant digit. The LC won’t run out of digits until July 11, 4378, and even then, there’s no reason it couldn’t just gain another digit to advance from 19.19.19.17.19 to 1.0.0.0.0.0.

[BLUE ELECTRIC MONKEY]

> It’s kinda cool to look at the count of “charmed” dates (per BEM’s definition) per year for the past a future few centuries:

Thanks man !
I wish I had that list anyway.

> A lot of “special” periods appear, including the current run of 25 years with at least 1 charming date, 1988-2012, with it’s peak year of 2000 (90 charming days), and peak 3-years 2000-2002 (219 charming days), and the period BEM notes from 2010-2012 (120 charming days).

Yea, the 120-days period is all about the same charm, 0,1,2.

> The next period that out-charms it is the 35 year period 2219-2233, with peak year 2222 (118 charming days) and peak 3-years 2220-2222 (277 charming days).

I think that what really causes a major charm effect, is not if "this is the biggest possible charm ever", but if "this is the the most charm since ever so far, and with a great deal of more charm than remembered before"

>As for there being a significant cause and effect relationship between the number of numerals that appear in a western date and human individual or group behavior, this would be a tough theory to support. You’d have to define significant events and a way of detecting them that avoids conformational bias, and even if some correlation could be found, you’d have a theory without obvious reliable post-dictive value (for example, the 4/6/1994 – 7/14/1994 Rwandan Genocide, something that would have been beneficial to have been able to predict, occurred on none of 1994’s 3 charmed dates) and less common-sense appeal than the discredited idea that more crimes occur on night with full moons than nights without. Supporting an un-obvious claim empirically can be very difficult.

Well we need to define it more accurately to get the best results.
I usually look for "Major Destruction Days of the Calender",
While Destruction is always the loss of lives AND materials.
Check this short list of most important destructions:
Fall of two Jewish Temples, Destruction of Jerusalem, Exiles, WW1, WW2, Crystal Night (with all the windows glasses Destroyed), 9.11.2001.
Also a Murder of the head of the country is usually a greater "destruction" than the massacre of 150 people, because it's not only about the lost of one life, everyone think something else is gone, like "something is destoryed in our country"
Hirsohima and Nagasaki are horrible destructions of course, but they are a result of "How to End current never-ending Destruction of War, once and for all, now", not destruction per se. They are big destructions that as far as dates go are in a point of Ending of the Greatest Destruction Period Ever So far.
Also we can say that 9/11 is the combo of destruction like the 666 is the number of the beast, because no other candidates for such such concepts as date-of-destruction of number-of-the-devil/devil's beast are accepted, because people already know that IF anything at all is to be considered as this or that, it's 9.11 or 666.
It succeeded in becoming an accepted Date-combo-of-destruction in Language(S), because it eventually "convinced" us more than any other combo.
Someone challenged me with a list of bad stuff happening.
They were all lesser destructions, and with fewer obvious such combos, but most (almost all) of them had the following characteristic:
At least two duos.
like
5.28.1628 (two 2's, two 8's)
If you got at least two duos, in a 7-digit-date, than at least 4 digits, or most of the digits in the date-format, are repeating ones.
You "see more repetitions and look for how numbers resemble other numbers more than you usually would" ?
maybe.
This made sense to me, because ALL my 9.11 dates of destruction in the western calender had at least two duos.
I guess that if "most digits I see are repeating ones" than "more obvious the 9/11 combo is to the mind if present"
(not so hard to get 2 duos of course, and if you got 11, you need just one more, but not every date has two duos, and I still got it Everytime, almost always with at least 5 repeating digits, not only 4)

I can easily say "the pattern of dates with most destructions is in appearing much more in dates with a 9.11 combo and with at least 2 duos than in other dates"
And maybe we can sharpen this even more and more.
Maybe even if it's a 8-digits-date, you need at least 5 repeating digits out of the 8 at least, so it will be "most of the digits are repeating" (not so hard with 8 digits...)

Is it safe to say that Pareidolia works differently if the data you see contains more repetitions of other data you see, than if most of the data is non-repetitive. ?
Since Pareidolia looks for repetitions, I think it's safe so suggest it work differently in "worlds" of "most is repetition" or "most is not".

>A couple of questions about Symbology’s numerology post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Symbology View Post
9 is the immutable number in base 10. (1 in base 2, 3 in base 4, 7 in base 8) A catalyst. It changes things without itself being changed.
I don’t get this. Since the usual numerology technique of summing digits is equivalent to modulo 9 arithmatic, adding 9 or “I” a number or name doesn’t change it (eg: Craig -> 3+18+1+9+7=38 -> 2; Craiiiig -> 3+18+1+9+9+9+9+7=65 -> 2). I don’t follow how this is metaphorically a catalyst. Explanation?

I think it is a catalyst IN numerology if at all, not ACCORDING to numerology,
You do most annoying numerology with adding the digits and again and again, until you reach a 1-digit number.
Any digit of 9 you encounter doesn't affect the final answer, you can discard those 9's in your count, making the process of computing much faster.
you used a catalyst in your computing.
you can even improve it.
you can find "quick 9's" and move even faster
4512
"4+5 = 9, so I can use that fact as a catalyst for a faster computing, and just add the other digits".


I tried the following experiment:
Roman Numerals, Can I say any more about them and "special numbers" except the 9-11 IX-XI ?
And then I thought of 13 and 666, the "bad numbers" of Christianity, and said to myself, what do Roman Numerals show me ?
(people giving reference to those numbers are more affected by Roman Numeration than others)

13
XIII
The furthest a way from 10
The reader / writer starts with a 10, and then "goes away from it", using only I's. X is special enough to have it's own Numeral, but 13 is so away from it, you need 4 digits to write it, And it's the first number with 4 digits in the counting.
Considering former "10, and not-10 possible meanings", does this make some sense

666
DCLXVI

Hey, that's the list of the first 6 Roman numerals in a Decsending order
(it's not 3 digits of 6, it's 6 digits that mean 666)
Is this is why this is the devil's number, or the number of the beast ? Because God is all about Ascending and this is the opposite ? because it describes "going down" as in going to Hell ? is this some pattern of going from our most developed concept of number (D in this case) to are most basic (I), while we connect our most basics with our-animal-beast-nature when we encounter such patterns in a Christian Universe ?
Could it be that it's the number associated most with devil, because on top of all of that, it contains all the possible Numerals that are Letters in the Word DEVIL ?
DLVI
both in the number and in the name ?
Once enough people connected those patterns to a bigger picture, they finally chose to connect this number to the devil somehow, more than any other number in Christendom.
(on top of the scriptures of course)
It's a Successful case of trying to convince others of the symbolic meaning.
Even if you believe the meaning or not, you can't give a new Devil Number in Christendom.
You don't have to accept that it's the number of the devil or its beast.
But no other number will convince enough people "XYZ is the actual number of the beast"
Most people think, that if any number at all is the number of the beast, it's this one.

>
Re: All the Truth about 2012
hi EBM,
I think it important to remember that a calender of any origin is man made. Time is a unit of measure.Certainly useful in predicting when to plant, harvest and such, but should not be used as a crystal ball. We can only guestimate the future, there are too many variables that can change the outcome. You mention Christianity and the return of His coming. Even He, does not know the day or the hour. Yet, alot of groups want to lay out the plan for him. It would seem that even God does not subscribe to the concept of time, as it is written that " a day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day" I certainly do not want to walk in fear of possible catastrophies that may or may not happen in my life time. I want to enjoy today. I can breathe acceptable air, eat somewhat healthy food, enjoy the starry night and the wind passing thru my holly bush. Tomorrow could be a nice video and soylent green"

Well, read this:

Now let me explain the 2012 phenomenon from a different perspective:
See how much analogy between 3 different calenders and End of the World theories.

The Christian YEAR ends, and its most symbolic celebration is Christmas.
The Birthday of Christ.
Christian versions of End of the World theories, talk about a future in which Time will End, or it's called The End of Time or The End of The World, or judgment day, and so forth, and it will also be the time Christ will come to the world, with the perfect analogy of birthday and coming to the world with the End of the Year and the End of Time.
In the Hebrew Calender,
Ninth of Av, The Hebrew 9/11, is the formal destruction day of the year BUT in the End of Times, It will become a day of Joy, since it's also the day the Messiah will be born
(accepted Jewish faith, not all believe he will be born on that day even if he comes, but all know it's the only date in the year considered as a potential birthday of his, if at all).
This is about 50 days before the Hebrew New Year.
And in Jewish versions of End of the World theories, The messiah will come at one point in near the End, and than there will be some stuff going on like building of Temples and maybe wars, and a religious return, and more, and then we'll have Heaven on Earth or whatever, and even a final judgment day when it is decided once and for all, who goes where.
There is some distance between the coming of the Messiah and the Final End, as in the year they are about 50 days apart.
(This is in complete accord with this version of the End: at the Hebrew year 6000 he will come, and in 7000 it will End.
6/7ths of the time is before the coming, and 1/7th in between the coming and the End, in this, quite common, version.
The average Hebrew Year, has about 354 days (only adding another month every few years).
So 1/7th of 354 is about 50 or 51.
If we take the Year, and "cut" it with this 6/7 - 1/7 scale, we get 50-51 days before the End. you guessed it. Ninth of AV (Like 11.9th being 51 days before 1.1, if both 11 & 12 months are 30 days, or 30 & 29)
Even if it's 2 days before or after Ninth of Av, it's a superb analogy.
After 6/7ths of the Year, and of the 7000-years-calender, It's the Messiah's Birthday or Coming, and after another 1/7th of the Year, or of the 7000-years-calender, you reach the End.
And what is the the Jewish Judgment Day in the Year ? Again you guess it right, New Year. 1.1.
(Yom Kippur is for appeals...
So when the cycle of the Year or of The Calender is over, you reach The End, and Judgment Day, after the messiah was born or came, when it was 6/7ths of the way.
The fact that in Christianity, the End of Time effect is much shorter in expected duration, is not only reflected in the Year, but also because in Christianity the Messiah is God, and in Judaism he's not considered as God.
How does this fit together so far about 9/11's and 2012 ?
As I showed, after 2012, we'll have much less dates of 9/11 combos, so, hopefully, much less destruction, and as a direct result, more days of Joy, as "prophesied" by the Jewish religion, in saying, (about the Hebrew calender...), that one day the 9/11-destructions will be gone or over or happy, or generally: LESS 9/11 destruction.
How does this fit with the Mayan Calender and its related-End-of-Times-Theories ?
Basically it all seems like that the End of the Calender FEARS are actually pretty much an extension of End of the Year Fears.
Many people have some fears before the year ends.
Time is going by, and you are forced to recognize it once again in a way that shows you you're not here forever.
You can party with the family and friends and love but some people will still deal with fears coming out.
Now project that, to a bigger Ending of All Time.
It goes by the same symbols, as far as End and Redemption and even Judgments go.
And the Mayan Calendar, doesn't just end every year, it ends in the far far End.
All collective obsession about 2012, is the same kind of obsession about the end of the year and the end of times in Christianity and in Judaism.
And the mayan Calender is just like one big year anyway, it has an End and it starts over.

[Symbology]

Originally Posted by CraigD

A couple of questions about Symbology’s numerology postI don’t get this. Since the usual numerology technique of summing digits is equivalent to modulo 9 arithmatic, adding 9 or “I” a number or name doesn’t change it (eg: Craig -> 3+18+1+9+7=38 -> 2; Craiiiig -> 3+18+1+9+9+9+9+7=65 -> 2). I don’t follow how this is metaphorically a catalyst. Explanation?

You have my mathematical process down, but I see your point. I had the wrong metaphor. It is not actually changing the result - whereas a catalyst does change the result. Hmm so what do you call something that doesn't change the system? I suppose Nobel gasses have a similar effect. Thanks. I'll have to go rethink this one.

Originally Posted by CraigD

I don’t get this, either. Paul -> 16+1+21+12=50 -> 5. How can you get 11 out of it – or, for that matter, get any number greater than 9 - from traditional digit summing?

Wow... you are right... and I have been wrong for SO many years. I'm not sure where I went wrong either. Because neither the Heart (vowel count) or the Personality (consonant count) is an 11 either. Maybe it is that Paul has a heart of 22 and that I misremembered things as an 11. Either way my apologies for tossing in the noise.

[BLUE ELECTRIC MONKEY]

Someone, let's call her Trinity, said:

Yesterday was a 10 10

Binary Code for the Matrix

red pill or blue pill

today is a 10 11 more code for the matrix

all those strange 911 synchronicities in the movies and everywhere, how do you think those happened? To return to the Source, Neo must first go to the Keymaker,
another program/person with "keys" to everything. The door to the mainframe, under intense security, can only be accessed for "just over five minutes" (until an alternate security system kicks in), or as the Keymaker puts it "exactly 314 seconds." This of course is a reference to pi, the only "anomaly" in an otherwise "perfect" system of numbers.

1) mathematics is the language of nature.
2) everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers.
3) if you graph the numbers of any system, patterns emerge. therefore, there are patterns...everywhere in nature..." - from the film _Pi_


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Thank you Trinity.

PI is a special number, no matter how you count, binary, decimal, or otherwise, and all over the world/galaxy/nature/universe you can see natural patterns concerning PI.

But let's return to the source.

The source of the way we conceive of numbers is with a system of counting based on 10 fingers.
10 is the "key", and even the "keys maker", of all our systems of counting. (we understand binary using our understanding of 10, and then we can even program computers on a pure binary "key").
PI is natural, but the natural source of the artificial Matrix of number obsessions, contains the perfect concept of 10.
How natural it is for the mind to see a man with 9 fingers ?
Ouch.
Few babies here and there all over history came to the world with "not-exactly-10-fingers-and-10-toes".
And even if they were and are, of course, a product of Nature, this was still referred to as an anomaly, and we still think of it as unnatural. 11 fingers are a natural anomaly, but if we see 9 fingers, we usually suppose it wasn't natural (from birth, or by an animal bite), but artificial (accident or incident, by humans and/or human-processed-matter).

(I hope I didn't upset anyone with my stating of "humans see handicaps as unnatural". This is not about my own bias and prejudice, and in no way do I mean they are "less human" or "not natural beings")

And all those feelings and assumptions, were much more common and socially-understood in ancient times, when the "Matrix of number obsessions" was in its beginning.
In the beginning of addressing numbers with a steady system of ten digits, or ten basic numbers.

In the movie, we reach 314, a digital representation of PI, according to Trinity. Thus, we somehow reach a natural element. It's still in the matrix, and it's still a digital-artificial representation, but it's a natural element. It's not dependent on the Matrix, and not a product of it, and it is even above the original-source-of-10.
PI is always an important number in nature, no matter how you count. The ratio between a radius and a circumference is always the same.
We even use it for degrees in angles, as the best base for advanced calculations.
We even write PI, and not some digits, when we address it in the matrix-of-number-obsessions.

In the movie PI, we see the obsession of numbers (*SPOILER*) develops and is finally over. He searches how patterns of numbers manifest in Nature and in the Stock-Market, and the viewers see how the numbers-obsession is affecting him.
He went directly for PI, a much more "natural" number than 10, or 9, or 11, or 23, or 13, or 666, or 2012, or 21.12.2012.
He thought it was about a possible consciousness in an artificial-digital-numeric structure.

And how it ends ?
(SPOILER )
He sits, exhausted, looking at a tree, directly at nature, without looking for numbers anymore.
His uncompromising search, eventually showed him nature, which is beyond what a number-obsession can create, and is even beyond the natural-source-of-the-artificial-matrix-of-number-obsessions, beyond the 10 digits.

Blue Electric Monkey

[TheBigDog]

In case anyone loses track...

The Maya Countdown

Bill

[BLUE ELECTRIC MONKEY]

Originally Posted by TheBigDog

In case anyone loses track...

The Maya Countdown

Bill

Nobody is losing track here....

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Symbology

You have my mathematical process down, but I see your point. I had the wrong metaphor. It is not actually changing the result - whereas a catalyst does change the result. Hmm so what do you call something that doesn't change the system? I suppose Nobel gasses have a similar effect. Thanks. I'll have to go rethink this one.

The correct term is 'identity', or more precisely 'identity element'. Identity element - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by Symbology

Wow... you are right...[that "Paul" doesn't give 11 or 22] and I have been wrong for SO many years. I'm not sure where I went wrong either. Because neither the Heart (vowel count) or the Personality (consonant count) is an 11 either. Maybe it is that Paul has a heart of 22 and that I misremembered things as an 11. Either way my apologies for tossing in the noise.

It's all noise, so no harm no foul. It's possible a different system of letter-to-number assignment was used in the source you originally encountered for the numerology of Paul. 5 is the correct result using the 'Western' system (also called "Pythagorean system"), but using the "Chaldean" system gives the result 9. ( Numerology Readings - Numerology information - Numbers R U - The Chaldean Number System) There is also a system that uses 11 and 22 individually, but I can't find it at the moment. It's also possible your Paul source used some other language to write the name or used Saul instead of Paul.

A popular numerologists who is raking in the dough on the backs of desperate folk is Glennis McCants, and she frequently refers to the "ancient Pythagorean system of numerology". Problem is, Pythagoras and his chums did not have a positional based number system, using 10 or any other base, so whatever they may have done & called numerology is not what is being done here.

Neither is it true that 10 is a "natural" system of counting more than any other. Some Native Americans used a base 4 system, and when they held up a full hand and said "this many", they were counting the spaces between fingers & not the fingers and the full hand meant 4.

Numerology is bunk.