[stanleyg]

Thought I might pose the question to see what type of responses I will get. It seems that the answer should be quite obvious by now. We have had over 2000 years to figure out the answer and plenty of scriptures. It is amazing that we don't know who we are in respect to our angelic transfiguration.

[InfiniteNow]

To answer the question in your subject line directly, angels are a concept with overlapping meaning across individuals. The meaning will sometimes be agreed upon and sometimes conflicting across individuals. While the concept of angels is often spread through literature and oration, angels are still a concept which stem from the mind. In sum, angels come from imagination.

[neuroflux]

Over the years, and through many translations, by many different men of Power, with different agenda, the Meaning of the word angel has been lost.

The Old Testament, which was written from works 4000 years previouly, gives us an idea of who the angels actually are.

The angels who of some came down and mated with the daughters of men, had all the characteristics of Flesh and blood.

For early man, The ANNUNAKI,NEPHILIM,WATHCERS, and ELOHIM would have been very impressive.
If you go to the SUMERIAN ONLINE ARTIFACT site, depictions of these "gods" show them with bird features, and wings.
Signifying they came form the skies.

The angels of the Bible, from my research leads me to beleive that they were the gods of an ancient past who came here, and established great cities and Temples and Pyramids.

Now, on the topic of Astral entites, which could be explained as Angels.
I have had direct experience with these beings.
And they are definitly real. Although they can take on various forms. And do at least it seems have an interest in our human affairs.

Neuroflux

[infamous]

Originally Posted by neuroflux

Now, on the topic of Astral entites, which could be explained as Angels.
I have had direct experience with these beings.
And they are definitly real. Although they can take on various forms. And do at least it seems have an interest in our human affairs.

Neuroflux

Would you like to elaborate on these encounters a bit? I must warn you however, unless you can support these claims with some evidence, there are members at this forum that are ready and willing to cause you much grief for making claims that have no empirical foundation....................Infy

[neuroflux]

Way before my 10 years of experience, Shamans have been communicating with "spirits" for 10,000 +
How?

by using Tryptamines.

There is particular knowledege about the combinations of plants, and the whereabouts of certain medical plants, and how to prepare and use them-that the natives give sol credit to these entities.

burial Sites, containing snuffing paraphanila, and Mummified serpents, date the use of Tryptamines way back......

Any group of endegenos humans who use The Tryptamines, have a complex relationship with these ancient beings.

As an example, one tribe, contacts the HEKURA spirits, small hunanoid elfish folk who, apon entering the chest of the shaman,,,,Help him to to his healing or divintaing.

I know it sound fantastic, and on a scinece forum maybe hard to swallow. But i tell you with all honesty, 30 seconds into a DMT flash, The issue of whether we are alone is a DEAD ISSUE.

Im tired tonight, so i havent included all my references, but if you want to know the whereabouts, of the burial site, or the name of the tribe, or the name of the Enthnobotanist, or th equote...just ask and i'll dig it up. I like to write stuff from my own memmory. it helps me to retain the knowledge i've aquired over the years.

For anyone who only has experinced DMT only from their own brains, (see my Plant shamnism post, for scientific proof)
Then i encourage you to visit my tattoo artists site I cannot link it till ive got 10 posts, sorry...)
and surf through his art. He is the only artist other than Alex Grey, who can bring the magical world of the Tryptamine concousness to the Waking world.

Im going to Bed now, to enjoy my own DMT dreamworld, and i'll be back tommorrow.

peace and light to the world
Neuroflux

[ughaibu]

It's also true that people have two heads, drink enough wine and you'll be able to see them both.

[CraigD]

Originally Posted by neuroflux

Way before my 10 years of experience, Shamans have been communicating with "spirits" for 10,000 +
How?

by using Tryptamines.
…
As an example, one tribe, contacts the HEKURA spirits, small hunanoid elfish folk who, apon entering the chest of the shaman,,,,Help him to to his healing or divintaing.

I know it sound fantastic, and on a scinece forum maybe hard to swallow. But i tell you with all honesty, 30 seconds into a DMT flash, The issue of whether we are alone is a DEAD ISSUE.

The central question, from a scientific (which pretty much means materialistic, AKA naturalistic) perspective is what, objectively, are these various spirits? Specifically, do they exist externally and independently from the person communing with them? or are they manifestations of some sort of information encoded in the person’s brain or other body parts?

The past 150 years or so of western (and, to a large degree, all human) though leads, I think, to the conclusion that they are within.

The turn of the 20th century was a time of naive spiritualism, in which many accomplished scientists (eg: William Crookes) approached spiritual phenomena as entirely concrete and natural, proposing the existence of such substances as ectoplasm, and were mercilessly and embarrassingly tricked by many slight-of-hand and misdirection artists into accepting bogus proof of their speculations. It was also a time in which comparatively little was known about physiology and neurology, and much of what was known, would later prove extravagantly incorrect. There appears to have been a bias in the scientific world to consider physiology a field of less value than physics and chemistry, and to consider living tissue to be “gross flesh”, unlikely to be of sufficient complexity to hold the information necessary to explain the behavior of a human being. The “glamour science” of the day – electromagnetism, optics, etc – seemed more promising a place to find living human – and perhaps, deceased, unborn, or non-human - spirits.

As biological science grew, and continues to grow, at an increasing rate, the capability of living tissue to contain all that is necessary to explain human (and other living organisms’) behavior, appeared increasingly plausible, while an increasingly accurate and comprehensive understanding of matter and light lead to improved understanding of its true properties and limitations. Today, this understanding has lead so far that many well-informed, rational people believe that “spirit” may possibly be contained not only in living tissue, but in other sorts of information storing and processing machines, such as electronic computers.

There can be little doubt in the mind of students of anthropology that spiritual experiences are subjectively real, and almost no doubt in the minds of people who have had such experiences, in contexts as exotic as trances and prophetic visions, or as ordinary as faith in salvation by the grace of Christ. That these subjective experiences are the result of objectively real, potentially scientifically knowable physical processes should in no way diminish their importance as means to living healthy, helping, and productive lives.

I believe that, with the right world view, mysticism and science are compatible, and that at some time in the (perhaps near) future, the question “where do angels come from” may be rigorously and convincingly answered with biological imaging systems.

[neuroflux]

to speculate whether or not these creatures are of my own creation, after being in the honour of their presense, would be foolish.
The Grace and beauty that is felt from interacting with these hyperspatial Metamorphing gatkeepers is so overwhelming that it is almost too much.

Back to the Jungle:

In the Amazon, natives who use the DMT rich plants of the Lower basin, discovered out of thousands of species of plants, a combination that defyed the rational mynds of the explorers.

I'll explain:

Many tribes use DMT by the snuffing method. In fact some of the oldest burial sites contain tubes and trays of DMT snuffing paraphanila.
Other tribes drink it.
DMT is NOT orally active. This is because our stomach's contain MAO inhibitors which break down the DMT too fast, to let it work its magic.
But the natives say that in Trance state the SPIRITS took them too a part of the Jungle and showed them a Plant that contains MAO inhibitor Alkloids, and the SPIRITS showed them how to prepare a tea, which will allow the individual
to trip for a good 5 to 8 hours.
To accidentally discover, and understand this neuro process by these natives, is startling.
And they give sole credit to there spirits.

As far as blowing this off as a mere intoxication( above reply) is silly.
Alcohol is NOT a entheogen, and has nothing to do with neurochemistry.

In 1994 Rick strassman, a New Mexico Psychiatrist, got FDA approval to do research with human Subjects, with DMT.
His book "DMT, the spirit Molecule" is a grand addition to the world of human development.
Even he, stoppped the research, because too many of his subjects were making contact with entites, that defyed human sceientif explaination.
From my OWN contact, as well as the work of Rick Strassman, and countless tales of neophypte shamans, extracting and experimenting at home, and the Shamans, we are dealing with a REAL PLACE, and REAL BEINGS.

Outside the Quantum mechanical world of reality, which we "wake up too" each morning, we are dealing with dreams and hullucinations, these spaces can be acheived by various methods, such as Fasting and othe ordeals....as well as hullcinogenic plants...and fungus.

The intensity of concentration in the visual cortex, as well as the vividness of the information being relayed is seen 4th dimentsionally, as evolving geometric surfaces. Information deployed fourth dimensionally. When one encounters the tryptamine trance, you are bekoned to interact with this hyper landscape, One only has to spend a few hours reading over the Trip reports to see that we are dealing with a place that is ever so connected to this one, yet intrisically working on levels that are usually hidden from the waking eye.
DMT, and Psilocybin invoke the Logo's, directly working on the language centers of the Neo cortex.
when one enters into these hyper landscapes, one has to make the decsion to enter into a dialog with this other.
And too make sense of the in comming signals, which are usually deployed as things seen not heard, these beings bekon you to follow them...........


neuroflux

[ughaibu]

The claim that alcohol (ethanol) "has nothing to do with neurochemistry" is untrue, how do you think ethanol produces it's effects? This invalidates the rest of your post. The preceding portion of your post concerns subjective impressions and details of chemistry, that dont appear to have any bearing on the question of "Astral entites".

[neuroflux]

Ok, how about this then...

Does your brain produce Alcohol?
Does alcohol play a important role in brain functioning?
Is alcohol a entheogen?
Is there cultures that base their whole spirituality around alcohol?

Come on your playing hard to get. You know what im talking about.

Shall i try again?

Ok, The tryptamine family of molecules play a crucial role in our waking reality, and our dream reality.
Humanity spends 5 billion hours a day sleeping, during which our brains secret a very Powerful mind altering substance.

DMT is hailed as THE medicine, in South America.

When you ingest this molecule, which is 4 atoms away from seritionin, while you are awake, it produces the most NOVEL experience that reality has too offer.

during the Tryptamine Trance, one encounters beings, whom seem very independant of your self.
For thousands of years Native communites have used and worshipped these plants.

For the natives to have just "stumbled apon" the above mixture of Plants to produce the Oral version of the DMT experience is pretty much immpossible, unless they were specifically shown how to mix them from a outside source.
They say it was the spirits.

Apon reading trip reports, adn thus having used it over the past Ten years, i Know that we are dealing with something that defys all scientific rational thought.
And it DOES answer the question.....