"Wee Beasties" and other "Critters" in TP

[Michaelangelica]

Wee beasties in the ocean!
http://hypography.com/forums/general...tml#post210321
Microbes living in the oceans play a critical role in regulating Earth's environment

The team found some surprising patterns of gene expression, DeLong said. For example, about half of the mRNA sequences found are not similar to any previously known bacterial genes.

[erich]

My Current efforts are trying to contact folks doing Metagenomic research in soils and putting the Terra Preta bug in their ears.

[Ahmabeliever]

"Wee Beasties" is what a Scottish girlfriend called any manner of insect. I have been calling the micro-flora and fauna portion of my soil the micro-herd or micros and in Aquaponics I referred to this community as the bio-film (and it's inhabitants).

So, if I use micro-herd/bio-film in relation to soil/water...

I'm talking about Wee Beasties.

I include the micro-plants in these terms as well. The fungi algae etc are an essential part of what takes place in soil/aquaponics.

One reason it is said that Terra Preta (TP) soils work so well - is the rapid establishment of mycorrhizal fungi networks and bacterial populations.

The organic nature of Terra Preta, when overlooked and trials amended with NPK fertilisers, in my opinion, completely misses the point of how it works.

The self sustaining nature of Terra Preta, again, is probably understood by old school organic gardeners, but somewhat missed by many trials I've seen.

Let's suppose we do not have unlimited NPK (petrochemical) fertilisers for a minute, and learn to use Terra Preta without them.

When we add some charcoal clay and bone to soil, in proportions so as not to alter pH too wildly at first - we add some building blocks to better soil.

Increasing the CEC rating of soil by adding carbon and clay, increasing the microbial activity by adding bone, increasing the fungal and enzyme activity adding carbon and (unburnt wood) lignin.

The overlooked portion of Terra Preta, is the high organic content. Compost. Though with TP the compost will contain very high humus - that portion of compost which is stable.

I try not to think - fertiliser - instead I think - organic additions, to the charcoal, bone, and clay.

This suggests adding all 4 components to make Terra Preta properly, not 3.

The organic portion of the Terra Preta is where we can help, by innoculating the mixture with Wee Beasties. Fungi and bacteria in the form of teas which are easy to brew, and only require a heater and microscope if you want to take notes as you do this.

The self sustaining nature of Terra Preta can be very broadly theorised as follows

Clay increases the CEC which in turn increases the rate of degradation of organic content namely compost (and subsequent micro activity and density). This increases the creation of humus, which has the highest CEC rating of all, thus perpetuating the rapid organic breakdown of remaining organic content into stable matter. Then, keep adding to it, for years and years, till you have a thick layer of stable organic TP mix.

A TP bed becomes an extremely efficient processing factory so efficient it can seem to renew itself from no inputs.

No inputs???

Atmospheric nitrogen is fixed by bacteria, plants and rainfall, minerals and other nutrition arrive from dust, insects, plant, bacterial and animal wastes.

The remains of which all eventually wind up as more stable organic material in the soil. 1 cm a year, totally believable of an established organic system, to renew 1 cm, better to add to it than take away though, if possible. But it does lead to sustainably spreading the 'wee beasties' far and wide by innoculating new TP soils with old TP organic matter.

TP soil behaves more like a multicellular organism (say a mammal) in function than a group of singular organisms. Fungal networks transport nutrition much like veins, and chemical cues are used to communicate within a diverse network of micro-flora and fauna. Companion type planting with diversity of species encourages diversity in micro populations and this in turn enhances plant life through mycorrhizal networks.

TP amended subsoils with organic content should not fail unless the carbon content is too high. So you add nitrogen - ie: compost.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by Ahmabeliever

"Wee Beasties" is what a Scottish girlfriend called any manner of insect. I have been calling the micro-flora and fauna portion of my soil the micro-herd or micros and in Aquaponics I referred to this community as the bio-film (and it's inhabitants).

. . .
TP amended subsoils with organic content should not fail unless the carbon content is too high. So you add nitrogen - ie: compost.

A great post and intersting observations Ahmabeliever
Soil as a symbiotic organism?
Original thought.

A few comments

charcoal, bone, and clay.
A lot of the bone in TP was fish bone. Was there other bone? Was it ground up? Do you have areference on it?

By "clay" you mean pottery shards?

SOM is often talked about in relation to TP but not compost.
SOM would be high in carbon and low in nitrogen.
Do you think Amazonian Indians composted?

How do you think TP might work in low rainfall areas where it was not being repletished with N from rain?

How do you get that much organic matter (if you don't live in a rainforest)?

Teas? tell me more pls.

"NPK (petrochemical)" very little comes from oil now mostly gas or mined.

I just read an abstract which talks about a fungi that sets up sybiotic relationsip into the roots of plants and out into the soil. I can't rember the details now

[Ahmabeliever]

Ah, glad to see I've got your attention.

The first time I heard of a micro-herd referred to as 'acting like a multi-cellular organism' was pertaining to bio-film and the functions it performs in a water body. ie:

Fish waste is mainly ammonia taken by nitrobacter who turn this into nitrite which is then processed by nitrosomonas who turn the nitrite into nitrate. Very basic Aquarium knowledge - the nitrogen cycle.

What is happening is multiple function, one multiple function among many that are happening every day in water bodies everywhere. From a set of unicellular organisms....

The fungi you speak of is mycorrhizal fungi. Mycorrhizal is not a fungi species as such, it is the term used to refer to the association between the fungi and plant. 90% of plants have fungal associations. Some m. fungal networks have been found covering 20 000 acres. This is the internet of the plant kingdom, and it is also a transport network.

Now - my education, let's clear this up. I am a self taught school dropout. I did top my school in several subjects before my 'rebel' phase. I also have the ear of the odd marine biologist now and then to guide me but basically I learn, reference, learn more. I have nothing against science but believe most research is govt and corporation funded to keep the status quo, and I also think a large percentage of 'organic' research is complete rubbish studying isolated bacteria/fungi etc which NEVER occurs in nature.

Education is great, I indulge every day, but my teachers are old hippies and fish keepers, organic gardeners, and the best teacher, once I had some frames of reference for what I'm seeing, is the time to observe nature very closely. Nature, not petri dishes.

So now that you all hate me....

SOM - or stable organic matter - is aged compost. TP is very old! New TP will need time to stabilise itself. Hence the improvement with age.

I theorise our ancient geniuses were adding all their wastes back into the soil, much like a good organic gardener does. (and good organic gardeners could fascinate you for a month of sundays with what they know) This constant composting, or putting out of the rubbish... would keep the 'less stable' topsoil high in nitrogen, and as it was processed in the soil, a portion became stable, and more added....

It's not a huge mystery how to get active bacteria and fungus into your soil, it's called composting. Keep composting year in year out and you too will have deep black fertile soil rich in SOM - without the charcoal.

Charcoal.. what all the excitement is about, is very exciting, but only a part of TP... Charcoal seems to add an edge, and this to me, is to do with increased water capacity, increased housing, and increased CEC.

Bones - fish, animals, humans, I don't know, I'd wager money it's all of the above (what they ate and who they were) according to the site excavated.

Clay/pottery - I'd like to know how well fired the pottery is. Again - increased CEC, aeration, water holding capacity according to porosity, silica for fulvic and humic acids...

While science tries to find the 'magic beastie', (I think someone thinks they've found it from replies to my introduction), that makes Terra Preta work, I'll be experimenting with working Terra Preta. Albeit, not Amazonian in origin.

I'll be doing things like - encouraging bacterial diversity
encouraging fungal diversity
and watching my garden go BOOM.

The bacteria and fungi, the beasties, that make 'amazing gardens' are not TP specific. They're everywhere. Adding charcoal assists them, greatly.

This has been proven in field trials in many locations not of the amazon. We don't need an amazonian bacterial isolate to make TP work in our garden. pH and existing soil matter must be taken into account as there is the problem of soils becoming too acidic.

A TP garden should input, at the same time - Charcoal AND bones/bone meal AND clay or pottery AND organic matter.

Once this is done, TP works.

What does excite me, as the microbial miracles in our soils are not news to me anymore, is the fact that we have a means of making clean energy. And added to this - the technology already exists.

So Who? What? Are we waiting for. Permission?

Show farmers the profit, and they'll switch to sustainable practise, until then, you aren't budging them. Why did the whole world jump into using the NPK model - profit!

Where's the profits for Farmers? - Free power, greatly decreasing fertiliser (and subsequently veterinary) bills, less water use, increased cropping, reduced erosion...

TP is organic, lets keep it that way, that's why it works so well, synthesisisng it is about as wise as synthesising fertiliser. It's wrecking the place in the name of profit.

Short sighted people with short memory spans already trying to put this stuff in a box.

[Ahmabeliever]

Now that I have established I can be emotional and irrational on this subject, let's continue...

My position on this is indeed irrational as most people just want to get on with their lives, not organise their trash. I do relate to this, but am cursed with conscience.

I have more faith in nature than human nature. The planetary ecosystem as a whole, and every singular microbe in existance (including us) has but one purpose, survival. We may well be only one of many 'intelligent' evolved beings who've inhabited Earth. Beings who believed they ruled the food chain till they tipped the balance of things they previously considered inconsequential, and subsequently perished. Who can say?

I don't believe this but it's certainly a possibility.

In some respects, however, my belief in human nature is very strong.

Show them the money, and they'll come running. It's all about survival.

Wee Beasties, including Wee Planties, will do their best, to do their best. It's the inputs that make the difference in the outcome.

When organic gardeners say - 'feed the soil, not the plant' - what they are talking about, is feeding the Wee Beasties.

Nutrients - fertiliser - in 'living' soil, is not fertiliser, it is the waste products of wee beasties and wee plants made organically available for other beasties and plants, plants wastes feed critters and critters waste feeds plants and they all take what they can from the soil and live and die and change in composition, and the new composition is consumed and traded and changed...

Symbiotic communities in the soil working together while fulfilling their personal primary purpose, or mission statement, survival. Evolving and filling in the soil utilising everything there to the best of their ability.

Inputs.

If one were to know how to make an excellent soil (hint hint 4 part Terra Preta) Most of the guesswork is gone.

Then you need a good micro-herd - wee beasties, that are local, to inhabit your new luxury subdivision.

This is where we get to compost teas, in the next lengthy and irrational (did that Hippy do too many mushrooms in the 60's?) post.

Recapping, and maybe missed bits, of my concept of successfully using TP in soil.

Charcoal, clay or pottery (recycle something if possible), bones, and compost in proportions suited to the acidity and nitrogen content of your soil. Mixed in with your own soil this should work in nearly every circumstance. (some soil may be poison or uninhabitable by fungi or bacteria for unknown or obvious reasons (salt content, particular substance in very high concentration).

Innoculation. Local (and imported if you want...) beasties that are already suited to garden conditions in proven performance spots (organic spots!). Native soils with native plants are excellent sources of local m fungi species. The more the merrier. Get em established, and then spread them to the next plots.

Innoculation occurs via compost addition and compost teas. Compost is like steroids for wee beasties populations, it's a nutritional goldmine. Compost also contains worms, mites, nematodes and much more, creatures crucial for developing the best garden on the block. We can even filter out the predators in our compost teas when we get to making them...

Collecting and brewing good innoculants, both bacterial and fungal, in tea.

Additional inputs. Compost - crop waste, household waste, added bone meal and dolomite if needed - depends where it is.

And compost tea. Aimed at breeding wee beasties, also containing nutrition, the perfect complement to an organic garden. TP or no TP.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Ahmabeliever

...The remains of which all eventually wind up as more stable organic material in the soil. 1 cm a year, totally believable of an established organic system, to renew 1 cm, better to add to it than take away though, if possible. But it does lead to sustainably spreading the 'wee beasties' far and wide by innoculating new TP soils with old TP organic matter.

TP soil behaves more like a multicellular organism (say a mammal) in function than a group of singular organisms. Fungal networks transport nutrition much like veins, and chemical cues are used to communicate within a diverse network of micro-flora and fauna. Companion type planting with diversity of species encourages diversity in micro populations and this in turn enhances plant life through mycorrhizal networks.

TP amended subsoils with organic content should not fail unless the carbon content is too high. So you add nitrogen - ie: compost.

The boldened phrase reminded me of Darwin's study of worms and soil production. >> Charles Darwin - The Formation of Vegetable Mould Through the Action of Worms

[Ahmabeliever]

Excellent link thanks.

I'm (not) spamming a post here to get to 10 eventually so I can share a couple of resources I like...

Going to go finish reading Darwin first.

I immediately (well page 2) went - ah! - the increased TP water holding capacity allowing for increased worm activity...

Woorms were only very briefly mentioned in my previous posts, and are essential wee beasties.

Darwin - "On a heath in Surrey, which was carefully examined, there were only a few castings on these paths, where they were much inclined; but on the more level parts, where a bed of fine earth had been washed down from the steeper parts and had accumulated to a thickness of a few inches, worm-castings abounded. These spots seemed to be overstocked with worms, so that they had been compelled to spread to a distance of a few feet from the grassy paths, and here their castings had been thrown up among the heath; but beyond this limit, not a single casting could be found. A layer, though a thin one, of fine earth, which probably long retains some moisture, is in all cases, as I believe, necessary for their existence; and the mere compression of the soil appears to be in some degree favourable to them, for they often abound in old gravel walks, and in foot-paths across fields."

[Ahmabeliever]

Concerning mycorrhizal fungi.

To (very roughly) test the effectiveness of m. fungi in TP you could get 4 plots. Innoculate them all with m.fungi and have

plants that benefit from m.fungi. ie:corn
plants that do not benefit from m.fungi. ie:cauliflower

And controls that are the same 'soil mix' without the TP (charcoal bone and pottery portions)

If increases in yield of m.fungi host plants outstrip the increase in yield of non host plants then the fungi are indeed an important part of the equation.

To (very roughly) test the effectiveness of bacteria as part of the TP equation have two controls of TP soil mix with the same species of plants.

Water one with chlorinated water, to repeatedly knock back the bacterial population (wont kill them all but will certainly upset them)

Water the other one with the same water source, but settle the chlorine out.

[Michaelangelica]

]

Originally Posted by Ahmabeliever

Ah, glad to see I've got your attention.

Always

Fish waste is mainly ammonia taken by nitrobacter who turn this into nitrite which is then processed by nitrosomonas who turn the nitrite into nitrate. Very basic Aquarium knowledge - the nitrogen cycle.

I would like to learn more about this

Now - my education, let's clear this up. I am a self taught school dropout. I did top my school in several subjects before my 'rebel' phase. I also have the ear of the odd marine biologist now and then to guide me but basically I learn, reference, learn more. I have nothing against science but believe most research is govt and corporation funded to keep the status quo, and I also think a large percentage of 'organic' research is complete rubbish studying isolated bacteria/fungi etc which NEVER occurs in nature.

Einsten was a dropout too.
You will find that if you make too many unsupported rash satements at Hypography somone comes down on you like aton of bricks. That's OK it just forces you to think. Don't take it personal.

Education is great, I indulge every day, but my teachers are old hippies and fish keepers, organic gardeners, and the best teacher, once I had some frames of reference for what I'm seeing, is the time to observe nature very closely. Nature, not petri dishes.

So now that you all hate me....

What nonsense.
You obviously have the wisdom and patience to learn from your elders.
these guys don't write down what they know they tell the apprentice. Just like music teachers or shamen.
The first "Garden Club" I ever joined I and my young wife and I could give everone 50+ years. (HDRA)
I was really uncomfortable and felt out of place.
Yet the kindness and generosity shown to me led me to a caeer in gardening and President of the Club
If you are young and want to be valued, learn a lot and get free plants-JOIN A GADEN CLUB> I am shouting as I hope other young people may be listening too(BTW Champion Rose Growers - a club I was in briefly-would not water their roses with clorinated water)

This forum has specialists but it also has lots of people just interseted in a particular area or "science/the world" in general. My bag is evolutionary biology which I know nothing about.

Clay/pottery - I'd like to know how well fired the pottery is. Again - increased CEC, aeration, water holding capacity according to porosity, silica for fulvic and humic acids...

There is a discussion and a couple of photos here somewhere.

While science tries to find the 'magic beastie', (I think someone thinks they've found it from replies to my introduction), that makes Terra Preta work, I'll be experimenting with working Terra Preta. Albeit, not Amazonian in origin.

That is one hypothesis that Conell and the Brazillian resachers are looking at.
I think we all have a unique zoo under our feet that we need to preserve.

I'll be doing things like - encouraging bacterial diversity
encouraging fungal diversity
and watching my garden go BOOM.

The Indians use sugar. Is that cheating?

The bacteria and fungi, the beasties, that make 'amazing gardens' are not TP specific. They're everywhere. Adding charcoal assists them, greatly.

I have had a few problems with char and acid loving plants.

Some say that char locks up nutrients when first aplied to soils. What do you think?

A TP garden should input, at the same time - Charcoal AND bones/bone meal AND clay or pottery AND organic matter.

Yep, thats about it. To many focus just on the char.

So Who? What? Are we waiting for. Permission?

I don't know. It depresses me sometimes. 'Blind Freddy' can see the benefits of TP.

TP is organic, lets keep it that way, that's why it works so well, synthesisisng it is about as wise as synthesising fertiliser. It's wrecking the place in the name of profit.

Even organic gardening associations and people are relucatnt to adopt TP