Go Back   Science Forums > Physical Sciences Forums > Earth science > Terra Preta
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-04-2007   #1 (permalink)
Philip Small's Avatar
Thinking


Location:
Spokane, WA
 
Philip Small is a glorious beacon of lightPhilip Small is a glorious beacon of lightPhilip Small is a glorious beacon of lightPhilip Small is a glorious beacon of light
 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Backyard Smoke: What to do with the biogas from making char

Making char produces biogas. It is flammable and contains a prodigious amount of energy. In an industrial setting char-making strategies often rely on the value of that energy, using it to produce hydrogen, etc.

It appears to me that the commercial value of the released biogas approaches the commercial value of the char produced. We who frequent this forum should not be letting this value slip away, allowing it to contribute to greenhouse gases, without some attention to the potential for recovery.

In the typical backyard/rural lot setting of the terra preta tinkerer, reasonable options for using the heat and smoke produced are below the metaphorical horizon or a "back burner" issue at best. Hopefully this thread will help stimulate some initial discussion in this area.

To date, I have found two technologies that offer some reason to hope that solutions could be developed at the individual household level:

1) The inverted downdraft gasifier. Developed to make more efficient use of wood for cooking in developing countries, it is undergoing continuing refinement. Many DIY-type folks are trying their hand at various configurations (The Garlington, the Magh smoke burner stove. The MIDGE (pdf). The James Butler MIDGE). It is a small batch process. It is highly efficient: a handful of twigs will boil a cup of water. The process is shut down about halfway through the burn sequence in order to retain the char.

2) At the high tech - glimmer-in the eye end of the visualization spectrum: The Stirling engine. A highly efficient, fairly simple, external combustion engine, the Stirling engine is far safer than the steam engine. The Strirling being applied to generating electricity from industrial waste heat, to generating electricity from solar heat, to cogeneration of household heat and electricity, and to service as a wood stove top circulating fan. A demo stirling can be made from tin cans and plywood, but a machinist in the family could be quite handy.

Look forward to seeing folks build on this theme of using the smoke and the heat generated in some beneficial way.

Last edited by Philip Small; 05-04-2007 at 11:18 AM.. Reason: add JB MIDGE link
Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2007   #2 (permalink)
Turtle's Avatar
Percipient

Platinum Subscription
Sponsor

 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Arrow Re: Backyard Smoke: What to do with the biogas from making char

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Small View Post
Making char produces biogas. It is flammable and contains a prodigious amount of energy. ...

Look forward to seeing folks build on this theme of using the smoke and the heat generated in some beneficial way.
Great post Phil! I have in mind to build a small stove from cans, etcetera, and the plans you linked were helpful. I have more the intent to have a lightweight camp/emergency stove that I can continually feed, but it prompted me to think of how to use it to make charcoal as well.

On top of a wood stove of your choice, set a cast iron pot with lid, charged with the bio-mass intended for charcoalization. In preparation before burning, drill a hole in the cast-iron post lid and install a fitting for copper tubing (1/4" oughta do for a small setup), and affix tubing so it exits the pot and enters the stove secondary intake. Fire it up! Voila! Charcoal and you have recaptured and burned the gases you created.
Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2007   #3 (permalink)
Michaelangelica's Avatar
Creating

Editor
Basic Subscription
Sponsor

Location:
North of Sydney Australia
 
Michaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond repute
 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Smile Re: Backyard Smoke: What to do with the biogas from making char

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Small View Post

Look forward to seeing folks build on this theme of using the smoke and the heat generated in some beneficial way.
thanks Phillip.
I came away from the IAI conference feeling that commercial pyrolysis is still away off. No-one wants to be first. All the engineering problems have been done. Now the bean-counters are doing their sums. Using of course, economic models that have always been suspect and poorly predictive. (GW? Whats that? Just a runaway train that is about to mow you down, thats all)
There is a recent article in the Economist apparently that suggests we cut down all the trees. I think the guy has been smoking too much "supply and demand"
I now know why I gave up studding economics - despite topping my school in it.

Anyway, I feel that we all need to be able to make our own charcoal.
Let the pyrolysis char makers worry about their markets when they finally consider them. We don't have time to wait.

So the problem becomes one of what do you do with dixonis and other poisonous bio-gasses in a home burn situation.
You obviously need to collect them or burn them.
Biogasses probably also contain a lot of oily resssiny material that is important to soil microbial life. So it would be nice to keep these.
Gary Larson has a STOVES list that might be helpful (same place as Terra preta list-bio energy lists).
I have been told by experts that it is possible to make your own char with not much more pollution than starting up an SUV.
There was a guy at the IAI Conference with a char maker about the size of a little fish-smoking box. I have to track him down. He was surrounded by people when I tried to talk to him.
I will certainly be looking at ways of making my own char this year.


----------------
"Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden."
~Orson Scott Card
Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007   #4 (permalink)
diazotrophicus's Avatar
Thinking


 
diazotrophicus is a jewel in the roughdiazotrophicus is a jewel in the roughdiazotrophicus is a jewel in the rough
 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Re: Backyard Smoke: Pyro-gas from making char

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelangelica View Post
thanks Phillip.
I came away from the IAI conference feeling that commercial pyrolysis is still away off. No-one wants to be first. All the engineering problems have been done.
I will certainly be looking at ways of making my own char this year.

Hi,
Dr. A.D. Karve in India at arti-india.org has some nice machines or devices for precisely that problem. Works with leaves and other small fry.
diazotrophicus
Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2007   #5 (permalink)
Turtle's Avatar
Percipient

Platinum Subscription
Sponsor

 



Not Ranked  0 score     
Thumbs up Re: Backyard Smoke: Pyro-gas from making char

Quote:
Originally Posted by diazotrophicus View Post
Hi,
Dr. A.D. Karve in India at arti-india.org has some nice machines or devices for precisely that problem. Works with leaves and other small fry.
diazotrophicus
Thanks diaz. Good looking page with helpful info and international flavor. >> ARTI


----------------
semantics is not always just pedantic quibbling. ~ douglas r. hofstadter
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Environmental Study of my backyard freeztar Environmental Studies 65 07-14-2009 03:49 AM
Chemicals in smoke Mercedes Benzene Chemistry 5 06-09-2006 11:12 AM
passive smoke and crossing a street sanctus Medical Science 17 06-16-2005 11:41 AM
Chemicals to create smoke sheezits Chemistry 4 02-01-2005 06:07 PM
how does the smoke detecter in your house work? Tim_Lou Chemistry 13 11-29-2004 05:50 AM

» Advertisement
» Current Poll
Who's the sexiest man alive? Johnny Depp or Robert Pattinson?
Johnny Depp - 27.27%
3 Votes
Robert Pattinson - 0%
0 Votes
Someone else (please specify) - 45.45%
5 Votes
I'm too macho to think a guy is sexy - 27.27%
3 Votes
Total Votes: 11
You may not vote on this poll.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:46 PM.

Hypography?

Hypography [n.]: A combination of "hyperlink" and "bibliography" - ie, a list of links to electronic documents. Comparable to discography and bibliography, but not cartography.

We have been online since May 2000, and aim to be the best place to find and share science-related content of all kinds.

Share the love!

Please add more science to your life. Use our RSS feeds on your blog, your portal, or your favorite feedreader!


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.3.2
Copyright © 2000-2009 Hypography
Part of the Hypography - Science for Everyone Network