[Philip Small]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Were the ideas really .. .. ?

Those were good ideas. The chunks are easy work with. Black charcoal breaks pretty easily, should work great.

[freeztar]

I do not think it is a bad idea and I applaud your outward thinking.
Nonetheless, the fact that char is not able to be dissolved in water is a big issue with your proposition. If the dust were fine enough and the nozzles wide enough, then it might work with minimal maintenance, but most likely it will require regular maintenance. Another problem is that TP shows differing microbial activities at certain layers. This cannot be achieved through surface applications alone.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

I'm beginning to feel a bit like the stinky kid in the lunch room. Were the ideas really that bad? It's okay... I've had some really bad ideas in my day, so it won't be anything new.

i'm here for you buddy. yes, the ideas are bad; or at least impractical for 1 primary reason. you need add the charcoal only once. it isn't like fertilizer or water which need re-application. the tiller idea might work for that one time, but spreading the charcoal & then tilling negates having to constantly recharge the chute.

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Turtle

i'm here for you buddy. yes, the ideas are bad;

Erm... Thank you... uhhh... I think.

...at least impractical for 1 primary reason. you need add the charcoal only once. it isn't like fertilizer or water which need re-application.

This, my man, is the answer that clarified all confusion for me. I was approaching it mistakenly as a sustaining problem, not a single application problem. It's amazing what happens when the issue is framed correctly, and I genuflect toward your great green state... oh, and toward the pacific northwest as well.

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Turtle

yes, the ideas are bad; or at least impractical for 1 primary reason. you need add the charcoal only once. it isn't like fertilizer or water which need re-application.

I guess that all depends on the approach taken. Soil builds up over time and the charcoal buried 10 years ago is now further below the surface. As I pointed out in my post above, TP shows layers of different microbial activity/species (soil horizons). The pictures I've seen of studies of Amazonian TP show pits several feet deep with several feet being TP. That can only happen through tilling several feet deep or, much more likely, a gradual build up over time.
You are correct that it is not like fertilizer and water, but I would question a claim such as "Does not need re-application".
With the sprinkler idea, you could control the amount of charcoal applied and perhaps only do it once a year.
I think it is premature to throw the idea out altogether.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Erm... Thank you... uhhh... I think.

come come man! would you have me encourage you against my better judgement? i think not.

Originally Posted by freeztar

I guess that all depends on the approach taken. Soil builds up over time and the charcoal buried 10 years ago is now further below the surface. As I pointed out in my post above, TP shows layers of different microbial activity/species (soil horizons). The pictures I've seen of studies of Amazonian TP show pits several feet deep with several feet being TP. That can only happen through tilling several feet deep or, much more likely, a gradual build up over time.
You are correct that it is not like fertilizer and water, but I would question a claim such as "Does not need re-application".
With the sprinkler idea, you could control the amount of charcoal applied and perhaps only do it once a year.
I think it is premature to throw the idea out altogether.

i don't think the active use of terra preta is well developed enough anywhere yet to compare with the Amazonian dark soils. those thick deposits may have developed or been constructed over 100's of years. there is no 'tilling' more than a foot or so by conventional farming equipment. going deeper is an excavation. moreover, how many food crops have roots going down severaal feet?

i suggest we conduct some experiments with some charcoal & water using some straws & cups or such a matter rather than continue to speculate on the efficacy of the scheme. yes, no?

[freeztar]

Originally Posted by Turtle

i suggest we conduct some experiments with some charcoal & water using some straws & cups or such a matter rather than continue to speculate on the efficacy of the scheme. yes, no?

Sounds good to me! I'll see what I can gather tomorrow (er...later today).

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by freeztar

Sounds good to me! I'll see what I can gather tomorrow (er...later today).

ditto. i have about a cup of bio-char left for trials. i put a tablespoon of it into a cup of water and about half sank & the rest is floating; nothing in between. i'll crush some up to different fineness with the mortor & pestle and then mix with water as with the big chunks.

[Philip Small]

To get an aqueous suspension, the charcoal has to be finely ground. It must be doable at some level but it sounds daunting. Google "micronized charcoal" and "air flowable charcoal" (for kicks), "colloidal charcoal".

The compost tea I make from my char laden compost pile is black. I suppose that is the colloidal charcoal.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Turtle

If the particles are dust-size, they may fit through the drippers without clogging. On the other hand, they will float and may gather in the top of pipes and not reach the outlets.

Originally Posted by Philip Small

To get an aqueous suspension, the charcoal has to be finely ground. It must be doable at some level but it sounds daunting. Google "micronized charcoal" and "air flowable charcoal" (for kicks), "colloidal charcoal".

my camera is out of commission so my description must suffice. i prepared very fine ground charcoal in the mortor & pestle and mixed it with water. at first all remained black, but after about 12 hours ~10% remained floating while the rest sank. (i expected more to float. )

this indicates to me that for this to even have a chance to work another machine is required to stir the suspension. on daunting yet more is the stirring/storing/delivey vessel needs to be closed & pressurized. while i haven't tried passing the mixture through straws to simulate an irrigation setup, i see problems with clogging during operation, as well as having the charcoal dry & solidify in the pipes/hoses when not in use. even if the system is flushed, the amount of water is increased and yet another level of complexity introduced.

any other experiment results or observations on this scheme?