Intense nutrition load soils - Organic?

[Ganoderma]

In the beginning stages of getting the farm built and have decided to turn 1/4-1/2 into an experimental multi crop section. the goal is to use all space available for food plants and get as high yields without additional chemicals.

I have been running an experimental bed for 3 years which is packed with plants and uses a tera pretta style soil. lots of charcoal and some brick/broken pottery. this bed i just use all the dead plants/leaves and other organic waste (including caterpillars/snails that get the hammer ) and it has been good, but moderate yields of things like pepper, tomato and such.

so i am starting with a flat piece of hard crappy dirt. i am planning on bringing in dead vegetation (lots around after this recent typhoon!) and taking the wood to make charcoal and the rest to make compost/loam.

Question is what are some good ways to really *FEED* plants via organic. i know its a slower process, but surely there are ways if planned ahead and just let it run as a constant cycle...? i also do the "throw it on the surface" technique. leaves and such just get thrown all over the ground, it has been a very effective "slow release" fertilizer the last 3 years, but i need a boost.


any thoughts?

[Michaelangelica]

[QUOTE=Ganoderma;276268

so i am starting with a flat piece of hard crappy dirt. i am planning on bringing in dead vegetation (lots around after this recent typhoon!) and taking the wood to make charcoal and the rest to make compost/loam.

Question is what are some good ways to really *FEED* plants via organic. i know its a slower process, but surely there are ways if planned ahead and just let it run as a constant cycle...? i also do the "throw it on the surface" technique. leaves and such just get thrown all over the ground, it has been a very effective "slow release" fertilizer the last 3 years, but i need a boost.


any thoughts?[/QUOTE]
Just about anything organic will help soil microbiology.
You could cheat and jump start things with a lot of sugar or molasses.

Have you thought of using a little fine Zeolite or similar, instead of (or as well as) clay shards?

[maikeru]

Originally Posted by Ganoderma

In the beginning stages of getting the farm built and have decided to turn 1/4-1/2 into an experimental multi crop section. the goal is to use all space available for food plants and get as high yields without additional chemicals.

I have been running an experimental bed for 3 years which is packed with plants and uses a tera pretta style soil. lots of charcoal and some brick/broken pottery. this bed i just use all the dead plants/leaves and other organic waste (including caterpillars/snails that get the hammer ) and it has been good, but moderate yields of things like pepper, tomato and such.

so i am starting with a flat piece of hard crappy dirt. i am planning on bringing in dead vegetation (lots around after this recent typhoon!) and taking the wood to make charcoal and the rest to make compost/loam.

Question is what are some good ways to really *FEED* plants via organic. i know its a slower process, but surely there are ways if planned ahead and just let it run as a constant cycle...? i also do the "throw it on the surface" technique. leaves and such just get thrown all over the ground, it has been a very effective "slow release" fertilizer the last 3 years, but i need a boost.


any thoughts?

Used coffee grounds, tea leaves, fish bones/waste, bones, etc. Also are you running red worms or any worms in your mix? Their castings contain chemicals like auxin and more concentrated, easily absorbed minerals and elements for plants that should boost growth. Get it closer to what the original Amazonians were doing. The biochar should help any rotting plant material disappear more quickly via increased fungual and bacterial activity, and perhaps become humus, and you'll see the effect on your plants. I found that biochar can take a while to mature, and it has strange properties that seem to vary with what you put in it or the plants growing in it. It seems to increase in fertility over time as it matures and it is "alive" in a certain sense, more so as the soil microbes colonize, change, and respond to it, and other soil denizens move in.

I've been experimenting with my garden and newer potting soil mix that has mostly a clay/sandy topsoil that I bought for really cheap, mixed with powdered charcoal, some bark, coffee grounds, etc. that wasn't responding well. The soil mix just wasn't alive and my garden started suffering, so I gave it worm castings and a compost tea that I've started brewing and inoculated with soil microbes. The castings + compost tea seem to have done the trick, and now I can see green scum (cyanobacteria) growing on top of gradually darkening soil, which used to be light gray and lifeless a few months ago. You could also try growing cyanobacteria in a jar of water and using that to repeatedly inoculate your garden. Several types of cyanobacteria have the ability to fix nitrogen from the air, secrete organic material into the soil, and themselves provide food and nutrients to the soil and plants when they die.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by maikeru

The soil mix just wasn't alive and my garden started suffering, so I gave it worm castings and a compost tea that I've started brewing and inoculated with soil microbes. The castings + compost tea seem to have done the trick, and now I can see green scum (cyanobacteria) growing on top of gradually darkening soil, which used to be light gray and lifeless a few months ago. You could also try growing cyanobacteria in a jar of water and using that to repeatedly inoculate your garden. Several types of cyanobacteria have the ability to fix nitrogen from the air, secrete organic material into the soil, and themselves provide food and nutrients to the soil and plants when they die.

Yes Biochar just helps the soil grow (soil =some assorted little rocks + a lot of 'wee beasties"), but you need the bacteria fungi etc, They only come when there is some food for them to eat.

[Getting A Life]

Compost teas! Makeiru is onto it.

Google 'soil food web' and check it out. You can replace soil biology for pennies but it requires knowledge, more than I can be bothered to type right now. A wee bit of worm castings seaweed and molasses goes a long way if it's brewed correctly.

Also, make sure you are not charring any plants classified as hyperaccumulators. Char is good when it's not toxic...

[maikeru]

Originally Posted by Getting A Life

Compost teas! Makeiru is onto it.

Google 'soil food web' and check it out. You can replace soil biology for pennies but it requires knowledge, more than I can be bothered to type right now. A wee bit of worm castings seaweed and molasses goes a long way if it's brewed correctly.

Also, make sure you are not charring any plants classified as hyperaccumulators. Char is good when it's not toxic...

It's true. Molasses and seaweed are excellent fertilizers and microbial feedstocks. Worm poo is just chock-full of beneficial microbes and worms help to aerate and limit pathogens in the soil.

One more thing is that it makes gardening all that much easier when the plants take care of themselves and are more resilient. The plants I've inoculated with compost tea and worm castings seem able to tolerate spider mites or fight them off. I'm impressed.

[lemit]

Maikeru's solution sounds a lot like my guinea pig bedding and coffee grounds garden that has been pretty remarkable. I've been amazed at how many worms there are in the bedding-grounds confection just a month after I put it out.

Since Maikeru and I are both at high altitude, I wonder if the soil pH might be significant. My guinea pigs are curious about this too.

--lemit

[Ganoderma]

good stuff! i have tried teas with good results also, but using ingredients like molasses is not something i hope to depend on as it is more of a refined product i need to buy. i have wondered about using sugar cane leaves/stems as a substitute though. our neighbor is a sugar cane farmer and once they squeeze the sugary juices out they use the left over as a mulch in their gardens, with pretty decent results i might add!

you guys have any ideas on compost teas on a large scale? i used my hotplate and pot, but something larger, thinking many gallons at a time, would be ideal...what is an efficient way of poo collection, on a large scale, without spending all weekend finger up worm doo doo? i was thinking of some kind of screened bins, but never really followed through with a good system


all my gardens, minus pots, are in ground except one raised experiment bed with is on concrete. all are loaded with whatever naturally occurring worms we have...i have seen 4 species, some more numerous than others. the results of these gardens are decent, like mentioned above if the plants are fighting off invasions on their own, they are at least happy. my problem is that although its good enough for grandmas rose garden, its not going to compete on a production scale (for me mostly fruit trees), which is where i need the intense part. teas certainly seem like a great method, work good, but also lots of work (i think).

i wonder if there is some kind of cool fermentation type tank like you see in pig farms for example where tehy let teh poop sit in big pools and do their stuff to break down (nasty!). could this theoretically work with plant composting? one last thought before i find myself rambling all through the night again.... what about a large compost bin. think a 10x10x5' high concrete cube open at the top. on the bottom about say 6-12" from the concrete floor is a screened so larger particles cannot fall through, lets say 1/2" holes for example. let the compost sit and do its thing for XX months. now i am thinking having a hole in the bottom hooked up to a hose, pour water through the top and let it go down to the bottom and collect small particles, nutrition?, and go through the house, and voila a VERY lazy compost tea. obviously not like a tea, but similar.....could anyone see drawbacks to this idea?

i will likely have irrigation pipes for the farm, so hooking this compost box up to that would be super easy, and regular little effort. just keep throwing thing into the top and letting them go about their business....stupid? possible?

[Getting A Life]

I got to get to school so briefly...

A worm farm of several buckets is a very easy DIY solution. You can find designs for these all over the web. A stacking system so the worms migrate up to the next layer leaving relatively worm free castings behind. Once the castings are produced you use them for the teas.

5 gallons does 1/4 acre and you only need a cup of worm castings, 25 ml of molasses and 25 ml of liquid seaweed to make 5 gallons of great tea. (adequate air is a must!)

Mulch is nearly always good. if you can get some sugar cane mulch by all means test it on some of your soil.

My compacted hardpan yellow clay took only compost and teas to convert to soil. It's not great (yet) but parts of it are really good already (2nd years spring season now it is brown dirt not yellow clay).

Compost heaps are great, turning the hose on them kills biology with the chloramine/chlorine. Good compost requires temperature monitoring and turning, but is worth it as all the pathogens and weed seeds get destroyed in the heating.

Good compost requires a bit of reading, then do it once and it all becomes clearer.

[Michaelangelica]

I just joined a Yahoo list serve group on Compost Teas! (There are a lot of nutters in cyberspace! )

Have a look, also, at the posts I made to day in Q&A on watering plants with soda (CO2 enriched water).