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07-06-2006, 06:15 AM
| | Understanding | | Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 272
| | | Re: Terra Preta
Hi All:
Maybe we will get some traction from Rifkin's think tank on promoting Terra Preta soils at scale:
Erich
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Forwarded Message:
Subj: RE: Terra Preta Soils: A solution to Numerous Problems
Date: 7/5/2006 1:13:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
From: dhjohnston at foet.org
To: Shengar at aol.com
Dear Erich,
Mr. Rifkin is out of the office today. I have sent some of your materials to our research team and will look into them further. I will be sure that Mr. Rifkin sees your message and the supporting attachments. Thank you for your message.
Kind regards,
Drew
Andrew H. Johnston
Chief of Staff
Foundation on Economic Trends
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From: Shengar at aol.com [mailto:Shengar@aol.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2006 4:20 PM
To: jrifkin at foet.org; letters@washpost.com
Subject: Terra Preta Soils: A solution to Numerous Problems
Dear Mr. Rifkin:
After seeing your article on marker-assisted selection (MAS): http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...070300922.html
I felt you may be interested in this MUCH larger systemic and holistic approach to sustainable agricultural development.
MAS could be the key to the large scale development of Terra Preta agriculture.
I thought, I first read about these soils in " Botany of Desire " by Michael Pollen, or Dr. Jared Diamond's "Guns Germs &Steel" but I could not find reference to them. Wherever, I did not realize their potential.
'Terra Preta' soils I feel has great possibilities to revolutionize sustainable agriculture into a major CO2 sequestration strategy. There is an ecology going on in these soils that is not completely understood, and if replicated and applied at scale would have multiple benefits for farmers and environmentalist. Basically we could have Bio-fuels and non oil dependent soil fertility too.
Here's the Cornell page for an over view: http://www.css.cornell.edu/faculty/l...ochar_home.htm
This Science Forum thread on thes soil contains further links: http://hypography.com/forums/earth-s...a-preta-9.html
The Georgia Inst. of Technology page: http://www.energy.gatech.edu/presentations/dday.pdf
As you will see the Japanese work with these soils is impressive, Especially with trees.
I've sent it to the researchers at M-Roots, who make Mycorisal fungus inoculations for acceleration of the reestablishment of the symbiotic fungal / root relationship. Here's the M-Roots site: http://www.rootsinc.com/
I also sent it to Dr. Jared Diamond, if he replies, I will probably have an orgasm!
If pre Columbian Indians could produce these soils up to 6 feet deep over 20% of the Amazon basin it seems that our energy and agricultural industries could also product them at scale.
Harnessing the work of this vast number of microbes and fungi changes the whole equation of EROEI for food and Bio fuels. I see this as the only sustainable agricultural strategy if we no longer have cheap oil for fertilizer.
I believe, to have fast results, an M-Roots type fungus inoculent and local compost would get this super community of wee beasties populated into their proper Soil horizon Carbon Condos.
Regards, Erich
Erich J. Knight |
07-06-2006, 07:27 AM
|  | Creating | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North of Sydney Australia
Posts: 5,544
| |  Re: Terra Preta
Wow!
lets wait and see!
The snowball is roling down the hill
My experiments are doing poorly but I have noticed a definate better water holding capacity in Potting Mixes with added charcoal.
I will post some pics of experiments and progress in spring
We are stardust, we are golden, we are billion year old carbon, and we've got to get ourselves back to the garden. - Joni Mitchell
__________________
“God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of the players, (ie everybody), to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time.”
Gaiman & Prattchet.
Last edited by Michaelangelica; 07-08-2006 at 09:06 PM.
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07-13-2006, 11:30 PM
| | Creating | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North of Sydney Australia
Posts: 5,544
| | Re: Terra Preta
How can we tell them it's not a problem?
We just get all the gardeners in the world on the job!!
FROM: http://abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1683532.htm Quote:
Concerns rise about CO2 burial
Alister Doyle
Reuters
Tuesday, 11 July 2006
smog
Hundreds of deaths caused by volcanic leaks of carbon dioxide around the world are worrying experts who are researching how to bury industrial emissions of the gas as part of an assault on global warming.
The concerns come as governments and companies investigate trapping carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas released by burning fossil fuels, and entombing it in porous rocks deep below the ground.
But they have done little to explain the vast cost and possible risks of projects that advocates say could bury billions of tonnes of gas and do more to slow global warming than a shift to renewable energies like solar or wind power.
"There may be massive public resistance, as we've seen with nuclear power" if governments fail to convince voters that storage is safe, says Dr Bert Metz, co-chair of a 2005 United Nations report on carbon sequestration.
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__________________
“God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of the players, (ie everybody), to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time.”
Gaiman & Prattchet. |
07-14-2006, 04:21 PM
| | Creating | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North of Sydney Australia
Posts: 5,544
| | Re: Terra Preta
__________________
“God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of the players, (ie everybody), to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time.”
Gaiman & Prattchet. |
07-16-2006, 01:10 AM
| | Creating | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North of Sydney Australia
Posts: 5,544
| | | Re: Terra Preta
Characterization and Performance of Amazonian Dark Earths –Opportunities for Future Soil Management
Johannes Lehmann Johannes Lehmann
Department of Crop and Soil Sciences, Cornell University Department of Crop and Soil Sciences, Cornell University http://www.georgiaitp.org/carbon/PDF...s/JLehmann.pdf
Look at the graph on page 16. I tried to paste it here but no luck.
There is an enormous amount of charcoal in these soils
At soil depths of
0-40 cm 20% !
60-100cm c10% !
__________________
“God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of the players, (ie everybody), to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time.”
Gaiman & Prattchet.
Last edited by Michaelangelica; 07-17-2006 at 01:57 PM.
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07-18-2006, 10:23 PM
| | Creating | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North of Sydney Australia
Posts: 5,544
| | Re: Terra Preta Results may take a while?
Getting some funny results in my garden experiments.
This article may help to explain:
" While single bio-char applications 8 and 20 Mg ha-1 did not have a significant effect on maize yield in the first year, maize yields increased on average by 15 and 23 %, respectively, in both the second and third year.
Can anyone email me and tell me how to post photos please? Quote:
Saturday, 15 July 2006
133-12
Bio-Char Applications to a Tropical Oxisol Increase Crop Yield and Modify Water Relations.
Julie Major1, Marco A. Rondon2, and Johannes Lehmann1. (1) Cornell Univ, 918 Bradfield Hall, Ithaca, NY 14853, (2) Centro Internacional de Agricultura Tropical - CIAT, A.A. 6713, Cali, Colombia
Bio-char can be obtained from plant biomass through energy-yielding processes, and is a promising soil amendment that could benefit crop production and carbon sequestration.
We report on data obtained from ongoing bio-char amendment studies at a field site on a Colombian Oriental savanna Oxisol.
While single bio-char applications 8 and 20 Mg ha-1 did not have a significant effect on maize yield in the first year, maize yields increased on average by 15 and 23 %, respectively, in both the second and third year relative to the control.
All plots including those not receiving bio-char were fertilized with NPK.
Apart from reported improvements in soil fertility, bio-char may have lead to an increase in crop growth through an alteration of water relations, as measured by field-installed tensiometers and zero-tension lysimeters.
In plots that had received a 20 Mg ha-1 bio-char addition in 2002 and that were cropped to maize in 2005, rain infiltration was slower when compared to the unamended control at all monitored depths of 15, 30, 60, 120 and 200 cm.
Such infiltration and percolation patterns may have implications for nutrient leaching and the export of nutrients from the root zone of crops.
This presentation will focus on hydrological and leaching data collected from this Colombian savanna experiment.
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__________________
“God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of the players, (ie everybody), to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time.”
Gaiman & Prattchet. |
07-18-2006, 10:41 PM
|  | Franker |  Sponsor | | |  Re: Terra Preta Results may take a while?
Quote: |
Originally Posted by Michaelangelica Getting some funny results in my garden experiments.
This article may help to explain:
" While single bio-char applications 8 and 20 Mg ha-1 did not have a significant effect on maize yield in the first year, maize yields increased on average by 15 and 23 %, respectively, in both the second and third year.
Can anyone email me and tell me how to post photos please? | My roma tomato test plot of 5 plants using approx. 30% horticultural charcoal by volume soil mix for 3 plants shows no apparent difference in the plants. All have grown to the same size regardless of soil type or the time I put them in the ground from their sprouting pots.
The plants have started flowering & I expect edible fruit in perhaps 10 days. Maybe I will taste or measure some other difference in the fruit. 
PS Check PM for photo info Micha. 
__________________  dare to be naive. ~ r. buckminster fuller |
07-19-2006, 03:27 AM
|  | Understanding | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Taiwan
Posts: 485
| | | Re: Terra Preta
i dont have much to say, still on page 5....very facinating stuff.
farmers here, especially betel nut and coconut farmers seem to always be burning things on their farm. i notice some collect a fair bit of debris (fallen leaves, tree trunks etc) and line them up between the rows of trees. every now and then i see a farmer burning the piss out of their farm. it struck me as weird because pest invertebrates are a HUGE problem for farmers here, and rotting piles of organics brings in a lto of bugs and snails. the soil here is actually pretty crappy, so i assume this could be a way to try and replenish it? its definatly take take take here in farmlands always adding "man-made" fertilizers.
this stuff with carbon, pottery and such seems liek an excellent method of providing good aeration. good aeration usually means far more micro organisms. also i would think it woul dhelp prevent water loggin gin heavy rains which cut down aeration quite a bit. incredibly interesting reading!!! |
07-20-2006, 07:47 PM
| | Understanding | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Taiwan
Posts: 485
| | | Re: Terra Preta
Someone mentioned about the aboriginals in WA had a form of terra pretta like soil. I lived in BC Canada for 20 years spending much of that time in the mountains. I am curious if people have done studies in places such as that. In use it seems much the same as amazonia, although not as old. Places there have been logged literally to the dirt, some places 4 or 5 times. They still grow back fiercely (except on steep mountain slopes where rains does away with much of the soil). I find it interesting because in many areas the organic content is incredibly high and sometimes at depths of 10 feet. These clear cuts are similar to that of slash and burn, just a little less burn. Often there are large piles of branches and waste wood left to burn. What I have been wondering lately is underground burning. They say they want lower temps, and smoke is useful. What happens in a forest fire? The roots burn underground. Forest fires can happen easily underground without any trace of smoke. I am wondering if perhaps this could be a useful tool. In BC I have seen where fire (apparently) started on a dead tree and worked its way down under. Because the substrate is really quite organic and sometimes only partially decomposed it would act like a large furnace. like a big grass heap in the sun. The smoke is captured above many times so not much is put back into the atmosphere.
Just another thought....could it be possible that these people started underground fires on purpose? Perhaps pottery, among other things, is a good way of spreading heat and trying to heat the soil up as a whole to get a nice big 400 acre "eco oven"? I don’t think that anything has one use, although it may have initially been meant only for one purpose.
Lastly about forest fires. I notice that after the past couple years forest fires in BC things grew back very quickly, despite relatively low water. Could this have something to do with it? Perhaps species that benefit from fire such as pines and morel mushrooms could lend some hints. |
07-21-2006, 09:20 PM
| | Creating | | Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North of Sydney Australia
Posts: 5,544
| | Re: Terra Preta
Quote: |
Originally Posted by Ganoderma Someone mentioned about the aboriginals in WA had a form of terra pretta like soil. | As far as we know, Aust. Aborigines used fire to make grassland available for kangaroos etc that they could hunt. Of couse the women could also get to collect the grass seeds (the fun job). Its probably not farming as we know it but I think there was plenty to go around. So there was no need to develop farming. Some estimate that Aborigines spent 2-3 hours aday getting food.
There is apparently a lot of charcoal in Aust. soils as a result of this practice over 40,000-60,000? years. I posted gentleman's remarks from the CSIRO who said Aust soils were poor because of this.(on this thread) In all my gardening I have never seen any evidence of it. Soils are generally low in organic matter. Quote: |
Originally Posted by Ganoderma Just another thought....could it be possible that these people started underground fires on purpose? Perhaps pottery, among other things, is a good way of spreading heat and trying to heat the soil up as a whole to get a nice big 400 acre "eco oven"? I don’t think that anything has one use, although it may have initially been meant only for one purpose. | Your guess is as good as anyone else as the Terra Preta Civilisation mostly died shortly after Spanish contact. Quote: |
Originally Posted by Ganoderma Lastly about forest fires. I notice that after the past couple years forest fires in BC things grew back very quickly, despite relatively low water. Could this have something to do with it? Perhaps species that benefit from fire such as pines and morel mushrooms could lend some hints. | From my experiments, and from the research, it seems charcoal certainly helps retain moisture (17% more according to research.). Most Australian natives cannot now re-produce without fire of some kind.
__________________
“God does not play dice with the universe; He plays an ineffable game of His own devising, which might be compared, from the perspective of the players, (ie everybody), to being involved in an obscure and complex version of poker in a pitch-dark room, with blank cards, for infinite stakes, with a Dealer who won't tell you the rules, and who smiles all the time.”
Gaiman & Prattchet. | | |
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