[chrisbrandow]

for those of you looking for cheap charcoal to mess around with, I have found at our local grocery store 40 lb bags of mesquite charcoal for $12. This is pure charcoal and much cheaper than most stores.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by chrisbrandow

for those of you looking for cheap charcoal to mess around with, I have found at our local grocery store 40 lb bags of mesquite charcoal for $12. This is pure charcoal and much cheaper than most stores.

Ingredients from MSDS/Label
Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent
Sawdust 000000-39-2 < 12
Calcium carbonate (Limestone) 001317-65-3 <15
Charcoal, activated 016291-96-6

http://hpd.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/house...nds&id=3027116

[Terra Preta Nova]

Originally Posted by Turtle

So you are claiming that lump charcoal is not 'the same' and contains

Originally Posted by Turtle

Ingredients from MSDS/Label
Chemical CAS No / Unique ID Percent
Sawdust 000000-39-2 < 12
Calcium carbonate (Limestone) 001317-65-3 <15
Charcoal, activated 016291-96-6

Is that your claim? Interesting.

Because the bag of charcoal *I* have says that it doesn't. The bag I have is from the cowboy charcoal company.

The original poster you say 'no' to doesn't say what product they have, but simple observation at the store shows you to be wrong.

[Terra Preta Nova]

Originally Posted by Turtle

While the 'dark soils' idea has some merit for improving the garden,

If by improve you ment to say better plant growth and health - yes.

Originally Posted by Turtle

this idea that it is a means to change climate is without foundation.

Interesting claim. Yet no one here is claiming 'a means of climate change' but instead is claiming that you can take atmospheric Carbon and place it into the soil for years.

"carbon dating has shown them to date back to between 1780 and 2260 years."Source: Wim Sombroek (pers. comm.); Bechtold, 2001

Originally Posted by Turtle

Moreover, it didn't keep the Amazonian people who employed it from disappearing.

So are you claiming that the terra preta soil somehow failed the people?

By all means, produce that evidence!

Otherwise, the main theories of lying documentation to the sights seen or death via diesease vectors from the old world have nothing to do with your claim of the soil failing the people.

[erich]

Hi All:
There are about 1/2 doz gourmet natural charcoal distributors( Google charcoal wholesale). Cowboy is one, most import from South America or even China. The only U.S. charcoal makers I have found are in Missouri.

I just started checking on the availability of Agricultural grade charcoal, dust to 1/2 inch,
high lignin feed stock, 4%- 7% moisture, and the lower the cook temperature the better.

I can only find it in Missouri, a 22 ton trailer , delivered to me in Harrisonburg, Virginia, @ $225/ton.

I have contacted Kingford (Clorox), hopping that occasionally their retorts in West VA may over produce for their use in making brickets, and I might get a load.

I also sent them the TP links,and my thoughts that the company would have interest in the over all carbon-negative aspects of the pyrolysis processes at Georgia Inst of Technology.

Their reply:


"Thanks for the reply and thanks for the links.
I've given your name to Clorox' Procurement Manager, who will be in touch.
Interesting propositions."



So keep your fingers crossed, this could be big



Also:

I sent TP post to the author of this new book, Teaming with Microbes: A Gardeners Guide to the Soil Food Web :

http://www.timberpress.com/authors/id.cfm/1262

"Dear Mr. Lowenfels,
After reading reviews of your book, I thought you may be interested in Terra Preta Soils and the roll they could play in establishing a sustainable agricultural technology in our climates. TP goes way beyond the old saw of "Feed the Soil, Not the plants" to "Feed, House, and provide water& waste infrastructure to the Soil! "


Erich

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Terra Preta Nova

Interesting claim. Yet no one here is claiming 'a means of climate change' but instead is claiming that you can take atmospheric Carbon and place it into the soil for years.

I have read a number of posts here to the contrary.

Originally Posted by Terra Preta Nova

So are you claiming that the terra preta soil somehow failed the people?

In relation to the sentiment that sequestering carbon is going to reduce global warming and so save humankind, terra preta did not serve that function for the Amazonian folks who employed its use.

Originally Posted by erich

I have contacted Kingford (Clorox), hopping that occasionally their retorts in West VA may over produce for their use in making brickets, and I might get a load.

What kind of wood are they using and where does it come from? Will increase in production equate to an increase in deforestation?

[erich]

Europe's Product Oriented Environmental Management System -- "Poems" for short

If only the US would share these TRUE costs with the public than we could discern their True value or determent.

http://energypriorities.com/entries/...ironmental.php

[Terra Preta Nova]

Originally Posted by Turtle

I have read a number of posts here to the contrary.

Thank you for your admission that you actually have not researched your claim.

Originally Posted by Turtle

In relation to the sentiment that sequestering carbon is going to reduce global warming and so save humankind, terra preta did not serve that function for the Amazonian folks who employed its use.

De Nile is not just a river in Egypt it seems. Rather than admit your position is without a research basis, you make a different statement which is not demonstratable as factual. Not to mention how you do not refute the research that some of the Carbon in the Terra Preta soils is 1700-2260 years old.

And follow it up with a 'shrug'. No emotocon for 'I was wrong and don't want to admit it'?

I've pointed out research that back up the claims. Your position is to 'shrug'. You have over 10 posts, lets see some links.

[InfiniteNow]

<sitting on the edge of my chair with this one... >

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Terra Preta Nova

Thank you for your admission that you actually have not researched your claim.

I made no such admission. I'll let the fellas here promoting charcoal sequestering as a global warming "cure" toot their own horns.

Originally Posted by Terra Preta Nova

Rather than admit your position is without a research basis, you make a different statement which is not demonstratable as factual.

Nor contrary wise.

Originally Posted by Terra Preta Nova

Not to mention how you do not refute the research that some of the Carbon in the Terra Preta soils is 1700-2260 years old.

I saw nothing to refute.

Originally Posted by Terra Preta Nova

And follow it up with a 'shrug'. No emotocon for 'I was wrong and don't want to admit it'?

Originally Posted by Terra Preta Nova

I've pointed out research that back up the claims. Your position is to 'shrug'. You have over 10 posts, lets see some links.

I suggest you search this site for 'terra preta', 'global warming', and 'horticultural science' in order to get up to speed with this discussion and its participants . Did you already know I gardened with charcoal soils this year? I didn't think so.