Terra Preta - The parent thread which started it all

[maikeru]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Very interesting, sane, and considered response Thank you
What is the answer?

Methane is mainly produced by landfill and swamps.
So. . .?

Other major sources of methane, besides landfills and swamps, are hydroelectric dams and cattle/livestock raising.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7046
(Link on hydroelectric power dams and methane production. The link between cattle and methane is already well known, so I don't think I need to supply any extra sources.)

[redgreenblue]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

What is the answer?

I think the short-term answer involves trying to recreate terra preta in different areas and seeing what happens. As the presentation below mentions, they're interested in seeing how
crop yield, nutrient cycles, and carbon cycles are affected by bio-char. In turn, they also want to see how different environmental parameters (e.g.,temperature, moisture, soils) effect bio-char decomposition and properties.
(www)css.cornell.edu/faculty/lehmann/biochar/WCSS2006/Cornell%20CIAT%20Rothamsted%20UN%20CENA%20INPA.pdf
(www)css.cornell.edu/faculty/lehmann/biochar/Biochar_projects.htm
...Which makes this forum interesting since a few people are already doing similar things themselves.

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Methane is mainly produced by landfill and swamps.
So. . .?

So nature's been producing greenhouse gases since the first microbes learned how to fart... And this has been a good thing since these gases have a certain residence time in the atmosphere (they're chemically broken down, absorbed by plants, etc). (See epa.gov/nonco2/econ-inv/table.html for some stats) As long as the amount of greenhouse gases entering the atmosphere is equal to the amount leaving, then this blanket of gases will trap the same amount of heat, and things will stay cozy.

The problem is that we're pouring these gases into the atmosphere faster than they are removed. It's like we're filling up a funnel faster than it can drain. To fix the global warming problem we need bring our emissions down to a level such that we more or less replace the amount of gases that leave the atmosphere.

The second part of this equation involves considering the Global Warming Potential (GWP) of each type of gas (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_potential). This type of accounting is very important because some gases are thousands of times more effective at trapping heat than CO2. By multiplying the amount of each gas by its GWP, we can get a better idea of how all emissions (natural & manmade) will contribute to the atmosphere's ability to trap heat.

So we do need these gases to maintain this blanket and stay warm... and Global Warming is more an issue of understanding how this blanket is being maintained by all types of emissions. It's sort of like figuring out if we're creating a giant wool blanket when all we need is a cotton sheet.

[erich]

[/QUOTE]
So it's really a question of how can we get this system to fit into larger existing techno-economic-social systems (also, how large could it become? what are the limits to spreading this technology). If you look through Eprida's presentations, you can see they're thinking about this in their slides on biorefineries. Biomass gasification is a bit of a swiss army knife for chemical production, and there may be opportunities for this technology to become economically sustainable by being a key process in numerous types of industries.

redgreenblue[/QUOTE]

YES!
That is why I have been sending this thread to every company and their brothers, that deal with CO2 emission problems or cellulose waste problems



My largest tipping point fear is the methane locked in permafrost

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by erich

My largest tipping point fear is the methane locked in permafrost

How big a potential problem is this?

[maikeru]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

How big a potential problem is this?

How about 1,000 Gigatons of carbon? (500 Gt from Siberia + 500 Gt from other areas around the world)

http://www.livescience.com/environme...st_carbon.html

I say let's terra preta that extra carbon and put it to work in better ways than cooking us.

Update on terra preta herb garden: the weather's gotten colder here, and my plants are growing more sluggishly--but they're not going dormant like the trees and garden outside. I harvested all my sweet & lemon basil, because they didn't like the cold nights (it's been 40 F in that side room), although I still have purple (opal) basil still growing. Most of the plants are healthy, except for my garlic plants, which have developed a strange black-spot fungal infection. I have a suspicion that it came with the store-bought garlic cloves.

In the near future (maybe a month or two), I'll try terra preta novo with some bushes and small trees, such as berries, coffee, and tea. (Ah, my little vices... I found a site that sells the seeds for these. This terra preta experiment has turned me into an indoor gardener.) Also, as I mentioned in an earlier post about the addition of fertilizer, I have to agree with Danny Day that terra preta, when freshly produced, does need some fertilizer to jumpstart it:

http://www.eprida.com/hydro/yahoo2004.htm

He mentions soaking the wood charcoal in fertilizer for a few days. I've done it later by a few additions of MiracleGro and now I don't fertilize much anymore, whether with organic or inorganic. There seem to be sizable numbers of different kinds and colors of fungi living in the soil as well as films of blue-green algae. These I don't mind. I hope they're doing their part to make the soil all it can be.

I'll have to see how the soil does a year or two from now.

[erich]

Wow........I had missed that on Dr. Days site.............My efforts to say the same things in my postings realy fall short compared to this:

" a global Manhattan project of
climate change.


What can you do? Read up on terra preta (some of the published works
made a part of the above patent application), look at references in
the Eprida website or convince yourself by testing. Grow your favorite
plant in two pots, one with 1/3 wood charcoal (soak this in fertilizer
for several days), 1/3 sand and 1/3 available soil. Plant the other
with your normal method for potting plants. Fertilize and watch them
grow. Watch it for three seasons and note the differences. (Many have
noted their best results in the second year as microbial populations
increase) Alternately, use a microbe/fungi inoculation to speed the
response.

Then tell everyone you know.Even if we can't stop avoid the climate
shift we will begun to build an awareness of a solution. If we broaden
the understanding that we can produce carbon negative fuels, scrub
fossil fuel exhaust of pollutants and C02, reverse the effect of
mining our soil, depleting soil carbon, trace minerals and losing
agricultural productivity then we will effect many generations to
come. In our lifetime, a 2000-year-old secret is being reborn and its
timeliness could never have been more appropriate. It now up to this
generation to embrace a plan to work with nature to restore lost soil
carbon and rebuild the incredible life at work in our soils. Working
together, we can achieve the possible."

Great find maikeru

OT: The other big Methane tippers are the frozen hydrites under the continental shelves

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by maikeru

Update on terra preta herb garden: the weather's gotten colder here, and my plants are growing more sluggishly--but they're not going dormant like the trees and garden outside. I harvested all my sweet & lemon basil, because they didn't like the cold nights (coffee, and tea.l

I'll have to see how the soil does a year or two from now.

Today was Basil Day. Tried to buy Thai basil (my daughter's favourite) but ended up with a punnet of sweet basil. As my soil in sunny spots is RS (Ph 9) i managed 18 pots of basil big 6-8" pots. The secret recipe potting mix was
One handful chicken manure
One handful horse manure (Very fine and composted mainly sawdust)
One handful seaweed
One handful 'Kitty Litter' ( Attapugite The nearest I can get to clay)
Two handfuls of BBQ charcoal pounded up. (Some not so fine I think it helps drainage)

Then "El cheapo Potting Mix"' ($2-3 a bag) on the top to plant the basil seedlings in.

I planted the basil about an 1" lower than they were planted in the punnet.
This helps them stay upright;
making sure they did not touch the raw chook/horse fertiliser/manure
Then a dusting of more fine charcoal
(A nurseryman's secret -you can always cover/plant square steamed plants as much/deep as you like).
In a week or so i will give them a dose of "Miracle grow"
Maybe some Osmocote later if they are good/well-behaved plants.

I am hoping my Lemon Basil will self seed from last year. Although it did go to seed very quickly. I am looking out for LIME BASIL delicious!

I thought as I was doing all this that it does not matter if Terra preta gardening works or not.
Like religion, faith and belief is all that matters. Everything else follows from that.
This afternoon I sequestered 3.5 K of carbon. This has to be a good thing regardless of the results?

...
PS
Coffee grows well indoors but you won't get berries unless you put it in a hot spot outside.
It is a very attractive plant

[maikeru]

double posting. Could someone delete this for me?

[maikeru]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

Today was Basil Day. Tried to buy Thai basil (my daughter's favourite) but ended up with a punnet of sweet basil. As my soil in sunny spots is RS (Ph 9) i managed 18 pots of basil big 6-8" pots. The secret recipe potting mix was
One handful chicken manure
One handful horse manure (Very fine and composted mainly sawdust)
One handful seaweed
One handful 'Kitty Litter' ( Attapugite The nearest I can get to clay)
Two handfuls of BBQ charcoal pounded up. (Some not so fine I think it helps drainage)

Then "El cheapo Potting Mix"' ($2-3 a bag) on the top to plant the basil seedlings in.

I planted the basil about an 1" lower than they were planted in the punnet.
This helps them stay upright;
making sure they did not touch the raw chook/horse fertiliser/manure
Then a dusting of more fine charcoal
(A nurseryman's secret -you can always cover/plant square steamed plants as much/deep as you like).
In a week or so i will give them a dose of "Miracle grow"
Maybe some Osmocote later if they are good/well-behaved plants.

I am hoping my Lemon Basil will self seed from last year. Although it did go to seed very quickly. I am looking out for LIME BASIL delicious!

Sounds like a good terra preta mix and it should have a healthy microbial community ready to go. The seaweed will also give the soil and plants the trace elements they need. I could've put in some manure, but I skipped it in my recipe because it was primarily indoors. I've read about lime basil but don't have any... Maybe I'll make a grand order of many new herbs to add to the garden.

I thought as I was doing all this that it does not matter if Terra preta gardening works or not.
Like religion, faith and belief is all that matters. Everything else follows from that.
This afternoon I sequestered 3.5 K of carbon. This has to be a good thing regardless of the results?

Well, I would hope it works. BTW, I have been watching some oregano cuttings I put into the terra preta mix, and they are doing well. Mmm, oregano...

PS
Coffee grows well indoors but you won't get berries unless you put it in a hot spot outside.
It is a very attractive plant

In the side room, it gets to be about 30 C or more during the summer (lots of windows and no heating or cooling in there), which is one of the reasons I chose it for growing the indoor garden. The plants loved the heat as long as they were well-watered. I'm sure the coffee won't mind. I just need it to survive the winter in that room. We have terribly hot summers (40 C usually during July and August) and cold winters (-5 to 0 C) in my part of Utah.

Originally Posted by erich

OT: The other big Methane tippers are the frozen hydrites under the continental shelves

Forgot about those.

[erich]

A letter to Nature:

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...l/443144b.html

Correspondence
Nature 443, 144 (14 September 2006) | doi:10.1038/443144b; Published online 13 September 2006

Biochar trials aim to enrich soil for smallholders
William I. Woods1, Newton P. S. Falcão2 and Wenceslau G. Teixeira3

Department of Geography, University of Kansas, Lawrence, Kansas 66045, USA
INPA/CPCA/Solos e Nutrição de Plantas, Av. André Araujo, Noo 3936, Bairro Petrópolis, CEP. 69011-970, Caixa Postal 478, Manaus - AM, Brazil
Embrapa Amazônia Ocidental, Rod. AM 010 - Km 29, CEP. 69011-970, Manaus - AM, Brazil

Sir:
Your recent News Feature "Black is the new green" (Nature 442, 624–626; 200610.1038/442624a) accurately summarized the origin, discussions and goals of the Terra Preta Nova group at the recent World Congress of Soil Science in Philadelphia.

However, one might be left with the impression that the biochar initiative is solely directed towards agribusiness applications. From the start, this has certainly not been the case. Indeed, innovative biochar field trials involving a variety of crops are currently being conducted in Amazonia by researchers in Embrapa, the Brazilian agricultural research corporation, and INPA, Brazil's national institute of Amazonian research. These trials are specifically designed for implementation by smallholders, who comprise most of the world's farmers. At the same time, the Brazilian researchers are seeking answers to the questions raised in Philadelphia about the native terra preta of Amazonia, even as US and European researchers are taking the concept in new directions.