[erich]

Maybe there is some place in Australia that has this type of slate, here's their site to learn more: http://www.permatill.com/

Wiltpruf is a anti-transpirent , it almost eliminates transplant shock: http://www.wiltpruf.com/

Be careful on how much water polymer you use in the planting mix.

I saw an article about a guy in GA who has put together a water polymer kit to spray it on your house in case of wild fire, very cool.

Here's the M-Roots site: http://www.rootsinc.com/
I spoke with one of their tech guys, he said that Australia was impossible to export to, but gave me these sites for companies that were working to develop indigenous fungus in India and Asia :
http://www.biotech-int.com/
http://sribio.com/companyprofile.htm

Cheers,
Erich

[Turtle]

I made an observation today we haven't brought up, nor did I hear mentioned in the show or links. Even mixed in the soil, some of the charcoal stays on the surface & so warms the soil in sunlight more than if it weren't there. Noticed it when I got nose to seedling with my radish seedlings this afternoon.

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by Fishteacher73

The problem with biomes such as tropical rain forests and tropical reefs is that there is such an abundance of life that the nutrients available are all used IN the life and the soil/water is VERY nutrient poor.
This sounds like a poorly researched and biased show that this came from. The only real way to allow for farm land to stay fertile is either through artificial fertilization (not the best) or a cycle of crop rotation and allowing fallow periods upon the field.

This, (BBC TV show) was not a "poorly researched and biased show" there is heaps of research to support their arguments
Fertilisers were used in Terra preta soils.
Terra praeta is not 'slash and burn'. The very opposite (See web links in my previous post(s)). Charchol was made then deliberatly ground into superfine particles.
Charchol however is not the whole story
1. The pottery shards, thousands of them, ONLY in Teraa preta soils.
Does this act as a catalyst. If not why is it there and no where else?
2. How can soils "grow back" yet this is the belief of the indians who sell their Terra preta soils. It might take 20 years but it grows back!
3.Is there a special set of microraganisms that make Terra preta soils fertile? . It is thought so. That is where the reseach is focussing now. Check out the Cornell Uni site on Terra preta and seach their servers. This is real! It is big deal! It may convince Brazillians that "slash and burn", or just "Burn" as it is now, is not the way to go
It might also mean that we all have more fertile soil; while at the same time,we get greater bang- for-the-buck from fertilisers.

See also the suggestion that global sequistration of carbon could reduce global CO2 levels to pre-industrial levels.

Michael

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by Turtle

I made an observation today we haven't brought up, nor did I hear mentioned in the show or links. Even mixed in the soil, some of the charcoal stays on the surface & so warms the soil in sunlight more than if it weren't there. Noticed it when I got nose to seedling with my radish seedlings this afternoon.

fascinating observation. (thinks ) So the extra heat does what? helps/hinders soil microorganisms?
Drys out soil -probably not in amazon
Would it help my plants in pots/
I have heard of people putting aluminium foil on pots to reflect light back up into plants; Charcoal would do the opposite.

This was an interesting post on another topic (PH):

It’s often handy to increase PH (decrease acidity) with “buffering” agents, such as solid wood or charcoal washed in the solution. This can limit acidity (low PH) without producing excessive alkalinity (high PH), and doesn’t require PH to be measured first.

CraigD - Junior Moderator
Last edited by CraigD : 04-23-2006 at 09:54 AM.
Michael

[Michaelangelica]

Some more information fromhttp://www.eprida.com/hydro/

8. Utilization of Indigenous AMF by the Application of Charcoal

(selected paragraph) The idea that the application of charcoal stimulates indigenous arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi (AMF) in soil and thus promotes plant growth is relatively well-known in Japan, although the actual application of charcoal is limited due to its high cost. The concept originated in the work of M. Ogawa, a former soil microbiologist in the Forestry and Forest Products Research Institute in Tsukuba. He and his colleagues applied charcoal around the roots of pine trees growing by the seashore, and found that Japanese truffles became plentiful. He also tested the application of charcoal to soybean with a small quantity of applied fertilizer, and demonstrated the stimulation of plant growth and nodule formation (Ogawa 1983). His findings with regard to legumes were taken up for further study by the National Grassland Research Institute (Nishio and Okano 1991).
Stimulation of Nutrient Uptake by Charcoal Application

The amount of nutrients (N, P, K) absorbed by the shoots showed a trend similar to that of the shoot fresh weight (Table 1). The amount of N fixed by the nodules and transported to the shoots was calculated by subtracting the N content of the shoots of the plants not inoculated with rhizobia from the N content of the inoculated plants ([F+R]-[F], [F+R+C] - [F+C]). The addition of charcoal increased this amount of N 2.8-4.0 times, and the ARA by 6.2 times (Table 2). Added charcoal also increased the nodule weight by 2.3 times.

PDF Version

Michinori Nishio, (1999) National Institute of Agro-Environmental Sciences - Japan

AND
Shell breaks barrier. Worldwide effect on hydrogen, fertilizer and sequestered carbon.

August 31, 2002 - Researchers using biomass from peanut shell ended a successful 100-hour experiment to demonstrate hydrogen production. They announced a method to sequester vast amounts of carbon while making fertilizer. This is one of the largest biomass to hydrogen projects in the U.S.

The hydrogen research team broke through the 100-hour mark and ended their demonstration of producing hydrogen from 50kg per hour of biomass on August 30, 2002. The team comprised of researchers from Clark Atlanta University, Georgia Institute of Technology, DOE National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL), Scientific Carbons, Inc. and Enviro-tech, Inc. began the experiment on August 25, 2002 producing hydrogen from biomass (peanut shells) as the culmination of a two-year field research project. The project has focused on expanding the demonstration of hydrogen production while producing valuable co-products from farm and forestry sources of biomass. In this case the co-product also serves as a long-term sequestered carbon. The need for co-products is essential to developing a profitable and sustainable hydrogen economy.

On August 22, 2002, NREL and Scientific Carbons, Inc.(SCI), a technology development company, filed for patent protection on a new slow release fertilizer made while producing biomass based hydrogen and a sequestered carbon. This product offers a chance for the fertilizer and farm industry to become a significant carbon sink while increasing farm income and crop yields. The use of the sequestered carbon as a carrier for nitrogen and as a soil amendment, which can prevent harmful runoff of farm chemicals is a win-win for farmers. Farmers and fertilizer manufacturers can become a major force in the battle against global warming while facilitating a renewable production of hydrogen. This work combines efforts currently underway in both the USDA and DOE and provide a way to reduce greenhouse gas buildup while producing the zero emissions fuel hydrogen. Danny Day, President of Scientific Carbons said, “The preliminary numbers look promising. Only a small percentage of the global unused agriculture and forestry waste would be required to sequester the amount of carbon building up in our atmosphere and deliver nitrogen to plants that can sequester even more. Using this technique, farmers could be the most successful and economically profitable method of sequestering all the excess atmospheric carbon generated. Economic development can lead to innovative sequestration techniques and we want to help demonstrate sustainable ways to serve mankind.”
FROM
http://www.eprida.com/hydro/
I'm not sure I undersatand how Hydrogen gets into the equasion?

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Michaelangelica

fascinating observation. (thinks ) So the extra heat does what? helps/hinders soil microorganisms?
Drys out soil -probably not in amazon
Would it help my plants in pots/
I have heard of people putting aluminium foil on pots to reflect light back up into plants; Charcoal would do the opposite.

Thinking....
1) I don't know about warmer soil helping microorganisms; so many other variables come into play.
2)I just learned about evaporation tray set-ups for measuring evaporation rates (see Global Dimming thread). They said that photons striking water account for most evaporation rather than wind, or temp, or humidity. Since the charcoal is not only absorbing heat, but also blocking the soil under it from the Sun, I don't think evaporation increase is expected.
3) Early in this thread, Uncle Al recommends charcoal in potted plants & gives some justifications.
4) Foil does work, but it is unsightly & reflects light unevenly. White material reflects light more evenly so you might use cardboard, house-wrap or other white plastic film.

Off to read your link: http://www.eprida.com/hydro/

[Michaelangelica]

Originally Posted by Turtle

Thinking....
1) I don't know about warmer soil helping microorganisms; so many other variables come into play.
2)I just learned about evaporation tray set-ups for measuring evaporation rates (see Global Dimming thread). They said that photons striking water account for most evaporation rather than wind, or temp, or humidity. Since the charcoal is not only absorbing heat, but also blocking the soil under it from the Sun, I don't think evaporation increase is expected.
3) Early in this thread, Uncle Al recommends charcoal in potted plants & gives some justifications.
Off to read your link: http://www.eprida.com/hydro/

Thanks - that makes sense to me
-check out the first tread i gave -the one on "tera preta saving soil & planet etc". it gives one of the best run downs yet on terra preta soils.
The eprida link just confused me. What is the story with charchol and hydrogen production? The eprida link dose't seem to have been updated since 2002?
Off to read global dimming link
Thanks
PS
Does anyone know how to coppice? Seems the English used this system for centuries to produce charchol as well as preserve their forests. How did they make charchol?
I would love to make my own it seems so expensive.

[Michaelangelica]

THIS
http://hypography.com/forums/medical...tml#post101541
seems relevant somehow?

"If the mutant was broken because it could not make DMB," she said, "then if we added DMB back it should be okay. So we added DMB, and the bacteria went back to acting like ordinary [symbiotic] bacteria. That was the defining experiment."

When the researchers provided DMB so that the bacteria did not have to manufacture it themselves, the bacteria's extraordinary brilliance subsided to a more uniform fluorescence on the lab dish with the laundry whitener. And in the lab dish with the seedlings, the restored bacteria produced a bigger, healthier plant. Chemist and co-author Kavita Mistry followed up with biochemical experiments to prove that the bluB mutant could not make B12 without added DMB.

"Our findings just mean bluB is necessary for the reaction," Taga said. "We are currently doing experiments to show that it directly catalyzes the reaction."

But Roth said the discovery gives him hope for finding all the steps in the pathway for synthesizing B12. "This is the part that has resisted genetics and chemistry," he explained. "We've tried it. Others have tried it. This appears to be the first enzyme dedicated to synthesizing the part."

Other bacteria, such as the Salmonella that Roth studies, appear to substitute other molecules in place of DMB, stymieing genetic approaches. But the form of B12 that people need contains DMB.

The discovery of the bluB mutant may overturn a theory that DMB spontaneously forms without enzymes to speed up the reaction, Roth said. Before the bluB mutant was identified, that theory made sense because the reactions that make B12 do not require energy, in contrast to most biosynthetic reactions.

Taga and Walker are following up to figure out how the bluB mutation affects the symbiotic relationship between the bacteria and the plant.

[Michaelangelica]

More info
While looking at Global dimming thread i found this PBS web sitehttp://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=53527&sid=77df977d82c0c8f0095df9ba a3f30a2f

Terra Preta wrote:
I am very conscious about global worming this documentary is really shocking. I am working with charcoal for soil amelioration. Currently I am traveling around the world to get charcoal acknowledged as a carbon sink. We can produce charcoal out of any biomass (waste products and agricultural residues normally burned today). Bringing this charcoal (inert against microbial decomposition hence it remains in the soil) back into agricultural fields reduces CO2 in the atmosphere and simultaneously improves soil fertility. Charcoal is only one product from biomass pyrolosis. The production of energy is the main aim and this provides us with carbon negative energy. I would like to encourage David Sington to show us technologies how to reverse global warming and prospects as impressive as we have seen the human induced climate change in this documentary.
Thank you for this good work! There is a link to discover between the ?The Secret of El Dorado? and ?Timing the Sun?. ?Closing the Cycle? could be the next. (www.eprida.com)


There is something else which is being used mainly in Japan called EM (Effective Microorganisms). A Japanese professor in agriculture discovered it by a chance during a class, after he had extracted a certain component of microorganisms that naturally occur in fermentation. These organisms are now used to detoxify soil, water and even air with great success. They add the natural 'vitamins' and vitality back into nature. They are even used by some factories on their waste materials, and again with good success of eliminating the toxic waste.
What I find interesting with EM is that you dont take a singular item or substance from somewhere and add it in excess elsewhere (nature is delicate and can counterreact) but you fill nature with what is already in there but which is depleted; positive microorganisms.
I am surprised (or should I be?!) that there has not been a decision on a politicial level to implement these organisms into all factories, waterplants, soil management, etc.

I really recommend everyone to read AN EARTH SAVING REVOLUTION by Dr Teruo Higa. It can be ordered through Amazon and explains the whole discovery and theory behind these simple microorganisms. Its a facsinating book.

[erich]

Thanks so much Michael for your informative efforts,

I have sent links to this forum to Dr. Felder of NanoLogix http://www.nanologix.net/ and to Crag Ventor's group , and to the Tech guys at M-ROOTS.

With the tipping point threat of melting permafrost these soil technologies seem to me to be the most cost effective responce.

Great work!,

Erich J. Knight