Terra Preta - The parent thread which started it all

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack (148) Thread Tools
  #311 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
InfiniteNow's Avatar
Suspended

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 8,378
InfiniteNow has a reputation beyond reputeInfiniteNow has a reputation beyond reputeInfiniteNow has a reputation beyond reputeInfiniteNow has a reputation beyond reputeInfiniteNow has a reputation beyond reputeInfiniteNow has a reputation beyond reputeInfiniteNow has a reputation beyond reputeInfiniteNow has a reputation beyond reputeInfiniteNow has a reputation beyond reputeInfiniteNow has a reputation beyond reputeInfiniteNow has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Terra Preta ADE abreviations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelangelica View Post
they use this abbreviation "Mg C ha-1 m-1"
The "-1"s are above the line.
So ADE, Soil Organic Carbon stocks are estimated at " 147-506 Mg C ha-1 m-1 "(p127). What does that mean?
...
Many of the articles I have read (especially Japanese ones ) talk about Charcoal stopping the leaching of nutients
milligrams of carbon per metric hectare?

The char holds the nutrients that water would otherwise wash away, but I'm not sure about the Japanese discrepanc you noted...
  #312 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
Thinking

Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17
redgreenblue will become famous soon enoughredgreenblue will become famous soon enough
Re: Terra Preta ADE abreviations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelangelica View Post
I am having troubles understanding some abbreviations in the book, "Amazonian Dark Earths" Can any one help? (No I don't have a copy of the book)
Talking about organic and inorganic carbon in soil ; they use this abbreviation "Mg C ha-1 m-1"
The "-1"s are above the line.
So ADE, Soil Organic Carbon stocks are estimated at " 147-506 Mg C ha-1 m-1 "(p127). What does that mean?
I believe this is the amount of carbon present in the soil over one hectare, measured to a depth of 1m, with Mg being Mega-grams or scientific jargon for 1 tonne... so if you use the right metric conversion factors, you can use this number to find how much carbon is present in a cubic meter of the soil.
  #313 (permalink)  
Old 01-21-2007
Thinking

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 91
Blog Entries: 1
Philip Small is just really nicePhilip Small is just really nicePhilip Small is just really nicePhilip Small is just really nicePhilip Small is just really nice
Re: Terra Preta ADE abreviations

MG = one million grams or 1000 kg

Units are MG per soil volume: a hectare meter, as in a hectare of surface area and a meter deep. A hectare is a square hectometer, that is, the area of a square which is 100 meters on each side.
  #314 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007
Michaelangelica's Avatar
Creating

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North of Sydney Australia
Posts: 5,871
Michaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond repute
Smile Re: Terra Preta ADE abreviations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Small View Post
MG = one million grams or 1000 kg

Units are MG per soil volume: a hectare meter, as in a hectare of surface area and a meter deep. A hectare is a square hectometer, that is, the area of a square which is 100 meters on each side.
Sorry redgreenblue
and Philip
I am very confused.
I am a 'Bear-of -little Brain'

So is there a LOT of Charcoal or a LITTLE bit?



Is this of interest?

Quote:
Fossil-Free-Landscaping group
<noreply@googlegroups.com> to Fossil-Free-La.
More options 20:21 (0 minutes ago)

Fossil Free Landscaping
Google Groups: Fossil Free Landscaping

Fossil-Free-Landscaping@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* fossil-free Re: Fwd: Kelpie Wilson | 2006 Top Green Tech Ideas - 2 messages,
1 author
Google Groups: Fossil Free Landscaping
* Jan 22/Little House on a Small Planet with Author Shay Salomon/Meeting Idea?
- 1 messages, 1 author
Google Groups: Fossil Free Landscaping
* Fwd: WATER! What's In It For You! Forum January 17. Tell your friends!! - 1
messages, 1 author
Google Groups: Fossil Free Landscaping
* NY Times: idea of saving the planet by planting trees 'dangerous illusion'? -
1 messages, 1 author
Google Groups: Fossil Free Landscaping

================================================== ============================
TOPIC: fossil-free Re: Fwd: Kelpie Wilson | 2006 Top Green Tech Ideas
Google Groups: Fossil Free Landscaping
================================================== ============================
__________________
What could possibly go wrong!?
DOCTOR WHO
  #315 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007
Thinking

Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 17
redgreenblue will become famous soon enoughredgreenblue will become famous soon enough
Re: Terra Preta ADE abreviations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michaelangelica View Post
So is there a LOT of Charcoal or a LITTLE bit?
If my calculations are correct, then that's between 14.7 and 50.6 kg of char per m3... it definitely seems like a lot...

147 to 506 tonnes = 147000 to 506000 kg
1 ha = 100m * 100m = 10000 square meters
147000/10000 = 14.7kg/m3
  #316 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007
Thinking

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 91
Blog Entries: 1
Philip Small is just really nicePhilip Small is just really nicePhilip Small is just really nicePhilip Small is just really nicePhilip Small is just really nice
Cool Re: Terra Preta ADE abreviations

Quote:
Originally Posted by redgreenblue View Post
If my calculations are correct, then that's between 14.7 and 50.6 kg of char per m3... it definitely seems like a lot...

147 to 506 tonnes = 147000 to 506000 kg
1 ha = 100m * 100m = 10000 square meters
147000/10000 = 14.7kg/m3
Clay mineral soils in the USA weigh about 1.1 times water. Organic soils (TP?) weigh less, coarse soils (sands) weigh more in the 1.5 - 1.6 range. Above 1.7 is compacted soil. Water weighs 1 gm/cc.

A cubic meter of water weighs a tonne (handy that if correct - check my math!). That puts 14.7 kg/cubic meter at 1.47% by weight. Not my area of knowledge, but that seems like a lot for a ferrasol soil.

I have been wondering about those 20% C numbers though. One source of confusion is if the author slips and is thinking Organic Matter but writes Organic Carbon. OM is 1.5 to 2.0X OC. It is supposed to be calibrated regionally, but calibration is demanding so labs often use 1.724 as a default. On the other hand, high organic matter soils weigh less per soil volume so maybe 20% C makes sense.
  #317 (permalink)  
Old 01-22-2007
Michaelangelica's Avatar
Creating

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North of Sydney Australia
Posts: 5,871
Michaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond repute
Smile Re: Terra Preta

Very confused now.

I just posted this on the new Tera preta website in response to a question but thought you might like to read it here too
Still procastinating about writing my TP article

Home Made Terra Preta (Nova?) Kit

"TP goes way beyond the old saw of "Feed the Soil, Not the plants" to "Feed, House, and provide water& waste infrastructure to the Soil! "-eric

Great definition erich

I have been mucking around with different potting mixes. with different %s of the following . I do much of it by "feel" or instinct as I have been growing plants in pots for 40 years. Always looking for "The Perfect Potting Mix"

I can't find broken terracotta clay so I use bentonite or attapultite as it is cheap and readily available.(kitty litter.).
I am told zeolite would also work well. I do like to use Terracotta Pots when I can.

Charcoal, very fine, in amounts from 5% to10% (I would use more up to 20% if I could afford it)

Down the bottom of the pot I put some seaweed (whole), horse manure fine, and fine chicken manure. I cover this with Very cheap potting mix then I add the clay and charcoal and more potting mix (I don't want young plant roots touching raw manure)
I use also a little slow release fertiliser and Miracle Grow Liquid fertiliser (small amounts often-the basil seems to especially like this)
Most plants and worms seem to love the "Terra Preta (Nova?)" thus made

Things I am leaving out shells, (have found a small local midden and may try this soon) fish fertiliser (too expensive), soil (too many weed seeds and poor PH) , quartz ( too hard) microorganisms.(too mean to buy them)-

The mix is a little heaver than I would like. Some sand, bigger bits of charcoal or silica might help. I notice there is a new Kitty Litter on the market that looks like silica but I wish they would put the full name of the product on the packet for Strange Gardening Experiments by Strange Gardeners. Replicating the pottery shard side of terra preta is difficult.

I am most proud of my one year old Fig tree (from cutting) that is now over a metre tall and has figs friuts/flowers? coming !

One thing that Terra preta does do for you, is give you a new appreciation of the complex web of life in the soil
I have a huge compost pile mainly of seaweed, have taken to emptying the vacuum cleaner bag on plants (As S. American Indians keep home floor sweepings for the garden) and now keep and grind up egg shells in a M&P for my 1 lavender plant. Even the ham leg from Christmas I gave to the crabs down the lake to clean. I have now retrieved it and trying to work out away of pulverising it!!

I noticed yesterday some locals putting lawn clippings in the council green waste bin.
I had to control my urge to run over and tell them not to throw away such good organic matter. It was not easy.
__________________
What could possibly go wrong!?
DOCTOR WHO
  #318 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2007
Michaelangelica's Avatar
Creating

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North of Sydney Australia
Posts: 5,871
Michaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Terra Preta

Good site with some good basic facts about charcoal for cooking
BBQ Charcoal FAQ by Bill Wight, www.bbqdan.com
Quote:
Q: What is charcoal?

A: a dictionary or encyclopedia definition goes like this: Charcoal is a substance obtained by partial burning or destructive distillation of organic material. It is largely pure carbon.
The most common variety, wood charcoal, was formerly prepared by piling wood into stacks, covering it with earth or turf, and setting it on fire.
In this process volatile compounds in the wood pass off as vapors into the air, some of the carbon is consumed as fuel and the rest of the carbon is converted into charcoal.
Charcoal, being almost pure carbon, yields a larger amount of heat in proportion to its volume than is obtained from a corresponding quantity of wood; as a fuel it has the further advantage of being smokeless.

Q: So is barbecuing and grilling with charcoal healthier than using wood?

A: Yes. It is healthier for us humans to cook our meat and vegetables over a charcoal fire than over one of wood. However, the risk of getting cancer or lung disease from barbecuing and grilling over wood is quite low, orders of magnitude lower than smoking cigarettes or living in the Los Angeles California air basin.
. . .
We as consumers have to take it on faith that a company who makes charcoal from scraps of hardwood lumber (from furniture or flooring) has taken precautions to use wood that is free from any contaminates or additives
__________________
What could possibly go wrong!?
DOCTOR WHO
  #319 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2007
Understanding

Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 298
erich is a name known to allerich is a name known to allerich is a name known to allerich is a name known to allerich is a name known to allerich is a name known to allerich is a name known to all
Re: Terra Preta

Hi All,

Muck and Mystery, a great blog , has a great review of Philip Small's review of a brace of articles from E/The Environmental Magazine The Scoop On Dirt: Why We Should all Worship the Ground We Walk On, part I and part II, by Tamsyn Jones.

Muck and Mystery: Soiled Stories

Included is a link back to our new TP site at Terra Preta , the first I've come across.

Erich

Last edited by erich; 01-25-2007 at 09:39 PM.
  #320 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2007
Michaelangelica's Avatar
Creating

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North of Sydney Australia
Posts: 5,871
Michaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond reputeMichaelangelica has a reputation beyond repute
Smile Re: Terra Preta, Teaming with Microbes

Good blog on a new book on soil bugs
transect points: Teaming with Microbes Arrived Today

Quote:
Thursday, January 25, 2007
Teaming with Microbes Arrived Today

My anticipated copy of "Teaming with Microbes" has arrived. While I can't comment on the full text with any authority yet, I can say that it is well organized and has an extensive index (8 pages). It pleased me no end to see "soil science 28 - 42".
There is also a valuable guide to labs and suppliers (4 pages). A supplier of mycorhhizal fungi here in Spokane is going to be getting a new customer.
Australian Customs, paranoid at the best of times, would FREAK if I started importing soil bugs.
I wonder if we just shoudn't be feeding the ones that grow naturally in our own areas?

One of the reasons the soil microflora of Terra preta has not been worked out yet is the fears Brazillians have of US firms patenting genetic material.
__________________
What could possibly go wrong!?
DOCTOR WHO
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://hypography.com/forums/terra-preta/3451-terra-preta-parent-thread-started-all.html
Posted By For Type Date
View topic - Does anyone remember that doco on.....? - Permaculture discussion forum This thread Refback 05-21-2007 01:30 PM
Carbon Dioxide | Terra Preta This thread Refback 05-21-2007 09:53 AM
Charcoal Use in Japan | Terra Preta This thread Refback 05-20-2007 05:06 PM
Les Forums d&#39;Onpeutlefaire.com -> Terra Preta This thread Refback 05-20-2007 01:31 AM
PSI | Terra Preta This thread Refback 05-19-2007 12:37 PM
Terra Preta | Terra Preta This thread Refback 05-18-2007 07:55 AM
Time to Master the Carbon Cycle | Terra Preta This thread Refback 05-17-2007 06:46 AM
Companies producing agrichar technologies | Terra Preta This thread Refback 05-16-2007 09:00 PM
View topic - Does anyone remember that doco on.....? - Permaculture discussion forum This thread Refback 05-16-2007 10:11 AM
DesMoinesRegister.com Blogs » Blog Archive » ConocoPhillips&#8217; Interest in Pyrolysis This thread Refback 05-14-2007 07:18 AM
About the Terra Preta Discussion List and Website at Bioenergylists.org | Terra Preta This thread Refback 05-13-2007 08:46 AM
Philip Small Blog: Making Charcoal with an Inverted Downdraft Gasifier | Terra Preta This thread Refback 05-12-2007 10:42 PM
Commentary: A Handful of Carbon | Terra Preta This thread Refback 05-12-2007 06:04 AM
Terra Preta Soils - sci.environment | Google Groups This thread Refback 05-11-2007 12:52 PM
Terra Preta Soils - sci.environment | Google Groups This thread Refback 05-11-2007 12:11 PM
View topic - charcoal agriculture - Biochar - Amazonian Dark Earth - Permaculture discussion forum This thread Refback 05-11-2007 12:35 AM
Charcoal from biowaste may remove carbon from atmosphere, on global scale | relocalize.net This thread Refback 05-09-2007 01:47 AM
NSCSS.org :: View topic - Soil concept named top green idea in 2006 This thread Refback 05-08-2007 05:23 PM
The CO2 sings 'Bury me, buuuu-reee me, bury me, across the world' | Gristmill: The environmental news blog | Grist This thread Refback 05-06-2007 12:24 PM
DesMoinesRegister.com Blogs » Blog Archive » More on Carbon Cycle (posted for Dr. Robert Brown) This thread Refback 05-05-2007 11:02 AM
Terra Preta Soils Technology This thread Refback 05-04-2007 08:49 AM
phpBB &bull; View topic - who is linking to my forum mod? This thread Refback 05-03-2007 03:25 AM
PBS Discussions :: View topic - Charcoal as carbon sink This thread Refback 05-02-2007 09:56 PM
Betterhumans - Terra Preta Soils to Save the Biosphere This thread Refback 05-01-2007 10:19 AM
View topic - charcoal agriculture - Biochar - Amazonian Dark Earth - Permaculture discussion forum This thread Refback 04-30-2007 07:26 PM
Untitled document This thread Refback 04-30-2007 06:55 PM
View topic - charcoal agriculture - Biochar - Amazonian Dark Earth - Permaculture discussion forum This thread Refback 04-27-2007 07:17 AM
Kelpie Wilson on Branson's prize | Gristmill: The environmental news blog | Grist This thread Refback 04-27-2007 05:36 AM
Soil - Our Financial Institution » Celsias This thread Refback 04-25-2007 08:00 AM
Conversion of Municipal Solid Waste (MSW) into Charcoal & Producer Gas | Terra Preta This thread Refback 04-19-2007 10:38 PM
transect points This thread Refback 04-18-2007 02:34 PM
Science a GoGo's Discussion Forums: Terra Preta Soils to Save the Biosphere This thread Refback 04-17-2007 11:04 PM
Bio-char references This thread Refback 04-15-2007 02:59 PM
TERRA: Living Soil This thread Refback 04-12-2007 09:10 PM
Betterhumans - Terra Preta Soils to Save the Biosphere This thread Refback 04-11-2007 10:28 PM
Betterhumans - Terra Preta Soils to Save the Biosphere This thread Refback 04-07-2007 01:20 PM
phpBB &bull; View topic - who is linking to my forum mod? This thread Refback 04-04-2007 03:22 PM
Terra Preta Soils - The Naked Scientists Science Discussion Forum This thread Refback 04-02-2007 11:52 AM
Ayahuasca Forums :: View topic - Terra Preta de Indio - the Amazonian Black Earth This thread Refback 03-26-2007 11:05 AM
View topic - charcoal agriculture - Biochar - Amazonian Dark Earth - Permaculture discussion forum This thread Refback 03-25-2007 05:51 PM
Ayahuasca Forums :: View topic - Terra Preta de Indio - the Amazonian Black Earth This thread Refback 03-25-2007 05:04 PM
A conversation with climate journalist Elizabeth Kolbert | By David Roberts | Grist | Main Dish | 10 Apr 2006 This thread Refback 03-24-2007 05:17 PM
Terra Preta Soils - The Naked Scientists Science Discussion Forum This thread Refback 03-20-2007 06:40 AM
View topic - charcoal agriculture - Biochar - Amazonian Dark Earth - Permaculture discussion forum This thread Refback 03-19-2007 02:23 PM
Preta - Flickr: Photos from Arqstein This thread Refback 03-17-2007 05:21 PM
The Newfarm Forums :: View topic - Terra Preta Soil Technology This thread Refback 03-16-2007 10:48 AM
Science a GoGo's Discussion Forums: Terra Preta Soils to Save the Biosphere This thread Refback 03-14-2007 01:46 PM
Ayahuasca Forums :: View topic - Terra Preta de Indio - the Amazonian Black Earth This thread Refback 03-13-2007 08:22 PM
Ayahuasca Forums :: View topic - Terra Preta de Indio - the Amazonian Black Earth This thread Refback 03-13-2007 05:43 PM
Ayahuasca Forums :: View topic - Terra Preta de Indio - the Amazonian Black Earth This thread Refback 03-13-2007 10:56 AM
Elizabeth Kolbert profiles Amory Lovins | Gristmill: The environmental news blog | Grist This thread Refback 03-11-2007 07:56 AM
International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - Colombian Soil Mix This thread Refback 03-08-2007 10:57 PM
Progressive Independent - Viewing topic This thread Refback 03-07-2007 06:05 AM
zomboconjon: An Outrage? This thread Refback 03-06-2007 02:53 PM
NSCSS.org :: View topic - Soil concept named top green idea in 2006 This thread Refback 03-06-2007 12:32 AM
Gasification May Be Key to U.S. Ethanol This thread Refback 03-05-2007 10:15 PM
phpBB.com :: View topic - who is linking to my forum mod? This thread Refback 03-05-2007 01:24 PM
Time to Master the Carbon Cycle with Tried & True Technology This thread Refback 03-04-2007 02:11 AM
NSCSS.org :: View topic - Soil concept named top green idea in 2006 This thread Refback 03-03-2007 03:50 PM
Kelpie Wilson on Branson's prize | Gristmill: The environmental news blog | Grist This thread Refback 03-01-2007 11:37 PM
phpBB.com :: View topic - who is linking to my forum mod? This thread Refback 03-01-2007 06:46 AM
transect points: Hypography Science Forum Upgrades Terra Preta Discussion This thread Refback 02-27-2007 07:15 PM
Gardening Care :: View topic - Gardeners can stop global warming with Terra preta. This thread Refback 02-26-2007 12:35 PM
Mechabolic Art Project: anyone want t... - Burning Man - tribe.net This thread Refback 02-25-2007 04:50 PM
Terra Preta Soils | Post Carbon Institute This thread Refback 02-25-2007 11:26 AM
PBS Discussions :: View topic - Charcoal as carbon sink This thread Refback 02-24-2007 07:56 AM
transect points: Pyrolysis This thread Refback 02-24-2007 02:44 AM
Science a GoGo's Discussion Forums: Terra Preta Soils to Save the Biosphere This thread Refback 02-22-2007 11:14 AM
transect points: Charcoal amended soil for real This thread Refback 02-22-2007 06:50 AM
Google Answers: the nature of soil This thread Refback 02-21-2007 04:07 AM
PBS Discussions :: View topic - Charcoal as carbon sink