[Lancaster]

Originally Posted by hallenrm

Let me pose another question to members interested in this thread!

Do quarks exist?

If your answer is yes, then God exists too Do you see the parallels?

No. Please explain.

[phoenixbyrd]

Quarks do exist, but they do not in any way prove magical deities exist and most certainly not the biblical god.

Hell, if we're going to so readily accept that magical deities exist then in turn we must also readily accept that the universe was created at this very moment, with all our memories as is, all previous actions and experiences having never existed prior to this very moment. But that would be a rather large leap of faith wouldn't it?

[phoenixbyrd]

Heck, just as much as you have to accept that the universe was created this very instant, you also have to accept that I'm the creator. Would you ask your god for proof of his powers if you were to ever face him in person or would you worship him as you do now, without question.

[tmaromine]

Originally Posted by phoenixbyrd

Heck, just as much as you have to accept that the universe was created this very instant, you also have to accept that I'm the creator. Would you ask your god for proof of his powers if you were to ever face him in person or would you worship him as you do now, without question.

I agree.

"I am God. What ? Who are you to question His powers ! You are to Hell."

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Jim Colyer

I wrestle with the question of whether or not there is a God. It seems like I can prove it both ways and disprove it both ways. Does the universe need a creator to exist? Or is this just an idea inside man-made theology? Man yearns for the eternal. He wants to live forever and be strong forever. He is the only animal as far as we know which builds churches and contemplates the infinite. This in itself may be an indication that immortality resides in a soul of some kind. If there is truth in religion, I accept the premises of the New Testament.

Jim Colyer
Jim Colyer :: News

I stopped doing that many years back. Why? Because I do not know and no one else does either. Until there is some absolute empirical proof why get your head all in quandary? If some God does exist I say it is up to the dude/ dudess to set the record straight.

[Dyothelite]

Originally Posted by hallenrm

Let me pose another question to members interested in this thread!

Do quarks exist?

If your answer is yes, then God exists too Do you see the parallels?

Equally..... Do "I" exist? and if so what qualities does something that "exists" have?

The Etymology of the word "existence" and "essence" is very interesting as well. Technically something doesn't "exist" unless it is observed. If you look at spanish.... "Ser" (to be) comes from essence (esse, to be) and "Estar" (to be-impermanent) comes from Existence (sistere, to stand forth)

[phoenixbyrd]

No, technically things do exist despite you observing them or not. Take away all sentient beings, heck ... all life, and what happens? The universe still ticks away doing what it's been doing for many many years before life ever arose.

[Dyothelite]

Originally Posted by phoenixbyrd

No, technically things do exist despite you observing them or not. Take away all sentient beings, heck ... all life, and what happens? The universe still ticks away doing what it's been doing for many many years before life ever arose.

I was merely speaking on the root linguistics of the terms. That was accurate. But even then the hypothetical "existence" of unobserved phenomena is still observed as mental recognition and therefore "observed" in the mind.

My point is latin and spanish have different verbs "to be" where english only has one. If you look at the roots of those two verbs in latin the meaning is different when you say something "IS" or "exists".

Whats weird is when you look at this technically God can "BE" but God cannot "exist". If God were to "exist" God must be directly observed, and God is by definition beyond even mental observation.

essence (root esse- to be)
Online Etymology Dictionary

existence (root sistere- to stand forth)
Online Etymology Dictionary

essence = permanent "is" (spanish Ser)
existence= observed qualities (spanish Estar)

[hallenrm]

My point is that we say quarks exist, because we can infer their presence from what we observe in high energy accelerators, otherwise no one can say whether they exist or not. Similarly, the existence of God is an inference from very many observed phenomena that science at present is unable to explain

[sanctus]

Originally Posted by phoenixbyrd

No, technically things do exist despite you observing them or not. Take away all sentient beings, heck ... all life, and what happens? The universe still ticks away doing what it's been doing for many many years before life ever arose.

Have a look into QM, there it is not true any more (at least in the strict sense)