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Old 06-09-2008   #281 (permalink)
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Re: Does God exist?

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Originally Posted by Thunderbird View Post
Is pyro correct?
Nope, but Pyro's post was spot on.

Physics has discovered/described much more about energy than Eastern Mysticism can/does/did. It's no coincidence that scientists chose to describe these complex energies in layman's terms by borrowing from history. I *love* taoism! But it can't describe rocket trajectories, or at least there's no way of obtaining these types of things from the teachings of Eastern Philosophy.

I was once excited about the possible merger between the two and began to read the "Tao of Physics". I got about 40 pages in and put it down. The equivalence is just not there.


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Old 06-09-2008   #282 (permalink)
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Re: Does God exist?

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Originally Posted by freeztar View Post
Nope, but Pyro's post was spot on.

Physics has discovered/described much more about energy than Eastern Mysticism can/does/did. It's no coincidence that scientists chose to describe these complex energies in layman's terms by borrowing from history. I *love* taoism! But it can't describe rocket trajectories, or at least there's no way of obtaining these types of things from the teachings of Eastern Philosophy.

I was once excited about the possible merger between the two and began to read the "Tao of Physics". I got about 40 pages in and put it down. The equivalence is just not there.
Nether is this post.
You should of kept reading then you would not equate Taoism with rocket science. He has a new book out looks good, I'm in.


The Science of Leonardo: Inside the Mind of the Great Genius of the Renaissance
Description: Leonardo da Vinci's pioneering scientific work was virtually unknown during his lifetime. Now acclaimed scientist and bestselling author Fritjof Capra reveals that Leonardo was in many ways the unacknowledged "father of modern science." Drawing on an examination of over 6,000 pages of Leonardo's surviving notebooks, Capra explains that Leonardo approached scientific knowledge with the eyes of an artist. Through his studies of living and nonliving forms, from architecture and human anatomy to the turbulence of water...


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Old 06-09-2008   #283 (permalink)
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Re: Does God exist?

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Originally Posted by Thunderbird View Post
Nether is this post.
Sorry, I thought you'd understand.
Quote:
You should of kept reading then you would not equate Taoism with rocket science.
If you would have read, and understood, my post, you probably would not have made such a claim.

Quote:
He has a new book out looks good, I'm in.
I'm game. Everything deserves a second chance.

Quote:
The Science of Leonardo: Inside the Mind of the Great Genius of the Renaissance
Description: Leonardo da Vinci's pioneering scientific work was virtually unknown during his lifetime. Now acclaimed scientist and bestselling author Fritjof Capra reveals that Leonardo was in many ways the unacknowledged "father of modern science." Drawing on an examination of over 6,000 pages of Leonardo's surviving notebooks, Capra explains that Leonardo approached scientific knowledge with the eyes of an artist. Through his studies of living and nonliving forms, from architecture and human anatomy to the turbulence of water...
Leonardo is one of my idols. A true Renaissance Man!


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Old 06-09-2008   #284 (permalink)
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Re: Does God exist?

I got interested in this post by it's title and have not looked over all the posts so I apologize if I repeat/revisit any arguments already stated.

I found this post interesting mostly because of the question asked. "Does God exist?"

I found this statement interesting cause not only can you not prove/prove god exist but you cannot define what god means to each individual.

I think it's most important to understand the brilliance of the mind and it's ability to reason/examine/question/etc. One should not criticize another for his religion or non religion yet understand the importance of that to that person and his reasoning behind it. Not everything needs a scientific answer and that's what makes the other half of the world great.

One's faith and mind is something that can never be touched by science.
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Old 06-09-2008   #285 (permalink)
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Re: Does God exist?

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Originally Posted by Thunderbird View Post
Do you even understand what your agreeing with, try reading more than one post before sucking up to the Mods and you might find yourself actually participating in a discussion instead of being the forum toady{sycophant}.


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Old 06-09-2008   #286 (permalink)
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Talking Re: Does God exist?

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Originally Posted by InfiniteNow View Post
Actually, anyone who understands science would say the opposite. I suggest that your comment above is more a result of stupid people attempting to describe science. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "what science is."




I can only conclude that you have absolutely no idea what science is, what the scientific method means, if you can say something above sincerely.




Let's start here. You tell US what kind of science YOU are talking about, and we'll see if we can meet in the middle to overcome the confusion. Sound fair?





Unit Plan: Teaching the Nature of Science - What Science IS
With all this defining of science, with all it's branches and in all it's forms; sounds more like blind faith in a religion I'd say! And you IN are an extremist. That's OK, I understand, I was once in that sort of coma.

I woke-up and one day so will you. Only then will you stop this obsession you have to prove to the world that YOU matter.
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Old 06-10-2008   #287 (permalink)
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Re: Does God exist?

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Originally Posted by Cathryn View Post
With all this defining of science, with all it's branches and in all it's forms; sounds more like blind faith in a religion I'd say! And you IN are an extremist. That's OK, I understand, I was once in that sort of coma.
Please.

Show me just one religion that's self-correcting and self questioning, and you might be on to something.

The only way religion changes, is through bloodshed and purges. The reformers were hounded to death for pointing out the church's failures. Only in the 1980's did the Catholic Church accept Galileo Galilei's theory that the Earth might just be rotating around the sun, and not vice versa. Think about the ramifications of that, for a second. 1980. Twenty eight years ago. The Earth rotating around the sun. When you consider this, the Church that is held in such great esteem, indeed looks more like a factory of ignorance than anything else. The curch poisons the minds of the ignorant, and prevents the light cast by the candle of science to penetrate into the nooks and crannies of human misery.

Show any scientist a failure in a set theory (show him and prove to him that Einstein was wrong, for instance), and you will be the new Hero of Science.

Show me any religion that (per definition, I might add) continuously question itself. They don't, because they have no reason for existence apart from human insecurities and the base human fear of the dark, death, and the Unknown in general. And, of course, there's money involved. But don't ask your priest/pastor about the money issue - they'll (of course) flat-out deny it. But that, my dear invisible faceless and nameless fellow member of Hypo, is the sole purpose for the Church's existence. The Big, Fat, Mighty Dollar. It's a con. Get over it. The Emperor is, indeed, naked. People seldomly accept when they were wrong, but in this case, I promise you, we won't point and laugh at you. Plenty of us have been done in for ages, too.

So, no. Following Science and believing in the Truth as presented by Science is not comparable to faith in any sort of religion you'd care to mention.

Not even close.
Quote:
I woke-up and one day so will you. Only then will you stop this obsession you have to prove to the world that YOU matter.
Ironically, that's not what Science does. Nobody here's got an obsession with anything, apart from, maybe, getting at the Truth. And when you approach the Truth from a Scientific angle, we work exclusively with empiricial data. No invisible, supernatural bullshit here.

Do you know why Scientists don't stand in droves on Sundays with their measuring equipment at Church doors to find a piece of God to test?

Basically for the same reason that they don't crowd around my pet dog Pluto with Geiger counters and similar tools to test my claim that my dog's made from Plutonium, and glows in the dark, and he can run faster than light.

And that reason is that the claim is so ludicrous that it doesn't actually warrant the time and effort spent on proving something that is already on the face of it, even before the tests began, diametrically opposed to the laws of nature that is, unfortunately for pastor Billy Bob Jones of the Reborn Evangelical Baptist Reformed Adventist Mormon Ministries, cast in stone.


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Old 06-10-2008   #288 (permalink)
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Re: Does God exist?

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Originally Posted by Cathryn View Post
With all this defining of science, with all it's branches and in all it's forms; sounds more like blind faith in a religion I'd say!
You have a gross misunderstanding of what science is. Science is simply a search for the truth and the body of knowledge assembled by such. It insists that truth be verifiable and that the tests that verify it be repeatable. This is far from faith based truths where people simply make up an answer like "God did it".


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Old 06-10-2008   #289 (permalink)
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Re: Does God exist?

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Zen Buddhism does not need validation from science it is in itself an experience brought about though the discipline of meditation by quieting the mind....Its not about the metaphor’s, its about the disruptions of energy. The point of the post was to show that western physics arrived at the same view as eastern mystics, only from two different directions.
Whoa! Slow down. Nobody said that Zen Buddhism needs validation from Science. Zen Buddhism is a wonderful and useful discipline.

What is a "disruption of energy"? This doesn't come from Physics. Science is not concerned with "disruption of energy". The word "disruption" has no [special] meaning in Physics. Saying that both western physics and eastern mystics arrived at "the same view" appears to be an empty statement--WHAT exactly, is the "view"? That "it's all about the disruptions of energy"? No, that phrase has no meaning in Science.

Now, "energy" DOES have a special meaning in Science. Energy has specific and measurable definitions. Energy = 1/2 * mass of a moving object * the velocity of the moving object, squared. There's one definition.

Energy has UNITS of measurement. Joules. The Joule breaks down into kilograms * meters, squared, per seconds, squared.

So, in eastern mysticism, what are the UNITS of measurement of "energy" or "chi" or "qi"? How do eastern mystics measure "energy"? If you "disrupt" some "energy", is it still "energy"? Or does it become something else?

If eastern mystic "energy" cannot be measured and has no UNITS, then how can you possibly say that physics and mysticism have the same "view".


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Old 06-10-2008   #290 (permalink)
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Re: Does God exist?

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Originally Posted by Pyrotex View Post
Whoa! Slow down. Nobody said that Zen Buddhism needs validation from Science. Zen Buddhism is a wonderful and useful discipline.

What is a "disruption of energy"? This doesn't come from Physics. Science is not concerned with "disruption of energy". The word "disruption" has no [special] meaning in Physics. Saying that both western physics and eastern mystics arrived at "the same view" appears to be an empty statement--WHAT exactly, is the "view"? That "it's all about the disruptions of energy"? No, that phrase has no meaning in Science.

Now, "energy" DOES have a special meaning in Science. Energy has specific and measurable definitions. Energy = 1/2 * mass of a moving object * the velocity of the moving object, squared. There's one definition.

Energy has UNITS of measurement. Joules. The Joule breaks down into kilograms * meters, squared, per seconds, squared.

So, in eastern mysticism, what are the UNITS of measurement of "energy" or "chi" or "qi"? How do eastern mystics measure "energy"? If you "disrupt" some "energy", is it still "energy"? Or does it become something else?

If eastern mystic "energy" cannot be measured and has no UNITS, then how can you possibly say that physics and mysticism have the same "view".
Quote:
"disruption of energy"?
Oopsie, My bad… that should have been description of energy.


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