[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Not for you..

Nor anyone else who chooses to live in reality and disengage from the ridiculous wish thinking which has stood in the way of our culture for far too long.

[REASON]

Originally Posted by Grains

In reference to what comfort does it bring you there are no words that can explain the true feeling it gives me. When Nadal won Wimbeldon today he told the reporter he couldn't even begin to explain what he was feeling. When a scientist makes a breakthrough discovery after years and years of work no one else can feel how he feels. Him simply explaining how he feels with words. Explain happiness, sadness, loneliness, etc. I don't know how to explain this to you it's for me personally and could never be explained.

I read this once and I think its a great explanation.

Science is limited to the physical (material) world and therefore has no knowledge, function or authority outside those bounds.

So all you're really saying is that you have a feeling that there is a god. A feeling you can't explain that therefore must be god.

You can't explain the feeling, yet you know it is attributable to a relationship with god. That's quite a dichotomy isn't it?

I think you want the feeling to be associated with god. That's a bit different than knowing it. The fact is, you don't know because you can't know.

So you have chosen to believe. But believing is not knowing.

[Grains]

Originally Posted by REASON

So all you're really saying is that you have a feeling that there is a god. A feeling you can't explain that therefore must be god.

You can't explain the feeling, yet you know it is attributable to a relationship with god. That's quite a dichotomy isn't it?

I think you want the feeling to be associated with god. That's a bit different than knowing it. The fact is, you don't know because you can't know.

So you have chosen to believe. But believing is not knowing.

I never said feeling and never meant to imply feeling. I know he exist.

I can know because I do know.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Nor anyone else who chooses to live in reality and disengage from the ridiculous wish thinking which has stood in the way of our culture for far too long.

Our culture ? what culture are you referring to ? and how is the way someone thinks standing in the way of this "culture" ? please explain.

[REASON]

Originally Posted by Grains

I never said feeling and never meant to imply feeling. I know he exist.

Of course you did. It's okay. You said.

Originally Posted by Grains

In reference to what comfort does it bring you there are no words that can explain the true feeling it gives me. When Nadal won Wimbeldon today he told the reporter he couldn't even begin to explain what he was feeling. When a scientist makes a breakthrough discovery after years and years of work no one else can feel how he feels. Him simply explaining how he feels with words. Explain happiness, sadness, loneliness, etc. I don't know how to explain this to you it's for me personally and could never be explained.

I read this once and I think its a great explanation.

Science is limited to the physical (material) world and therefore has no knowledge, function or authority outside those bounds.

Many people, including some of my closest friends, have described a feeling similar to yours to explain their sense of knowing about god. It's really not unusual. But deciding that god exists because you have a feeling, or a sense, or some intuition, does not constitute knowing because it's altogether possible that your feelings are being misunderstood or misapplied.

Originally Posted by Grains

I can know because I do know.

Sorry. That's just not good enough (for me anyway). You can't know. You just think you can. There's a distinct difference.

It appears you are having difficulty distiguishing what you believe with what you know.

Please explain how you know there is a god if it is not based on a feeling you have. Show me so I can know as well. What evidence do you have to offer?

[REASON]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

Our culture ? what culture are you referring to ? and how is the way someone thinks standing in the way of this "culture" ? please explain.

Here. Click on the link below and watch the video lecture by Sam Harris. He explains it very well.

FORA.tv - The Clash Between Faith and Reason

[Grains]

Originally Posted by REASON

Of course you did. It's okay. You said.



Many people, including some of my closest friends, have described a feeling similar to yours to explain their sense of knowing about god. It's really not unusual. But deciding that god exists because you have a feeling, or a sense, or some intuition, does not constitute knowing because it's altogether possible that your feelings are being misunderstood or misapplied.




Sorry. That's just not good enough (for me anyway). You can't know. You just think you can. There's a distinct difference.

It appears you are having difficulty distiguishing what you believe with what you know.

Please explain how you know there is a god if it is not based on a feeling you have. Show me so I can know as well. What evidence do you have to offer?

Nice on the the feeling. I absolutely said it. I was trying to use the word feeling to kind of lead into the next few sentences because I was trying to relate it to feeling describing feeling with words. Nevermind, it was wrong on my part, bad analogies. I thought I made clear a few post ago that its faith and let me reiterate that it is. Sorry about that.

I guess that is where the argument will always end. You believe I can't know and I know I do. I think I already covered the explanation part seeming it would be impossible for words to describe. As far as proof. If it proof you want I do not have "material" evidence to provide you. As such, god is outside the material world so it would be impossible to define/provide laws and definitions to God. I am sure that won't be good enough for you as you stated before but any further and I would be preaching. I am not here to preach and turn one to the thinking of mine. I stand by my faith and I also have no reason to prove it to you as that would be impossible considering you want material evidence.

[InfiniteNow]

Grains,

Let me try a little something with you. I am going to use your words, but replace one of them. See how it sounds to you:

In reference to what comfort do UNICORNS bring you there are no words that can explain the true feeling UNICORNS gives me.


I know UNICORNS exist.

I can know because I do know.



You believe I can't know and I know I do. I think I already covered the explanation part seeming it would be impossible for words to describe. As far as proof. If it proof you want I do not have "material" evidence to provide you. As such, UNICORNS are outside the material world so it would be impossible to define/provide laws and definitions to UNICORNS . I am sure that won't be good enough for you as you stated before but any further and I would be preaching. I am not here to preach and turn one to the thinking of mine. I stand by my faith and I also have no reason to prove it to you as that would be impossible considering you want material evidence.

Why should this idea of god be given any special acceptance when you don't do the same thing for UNICORNS ?



Please note: UNICORNS can be replaced with The Tooth Fairy, Leprechauns, The Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and countless other figments of the imagination.

Also, feel free to replace with other gods, such as Zeus, Thor, Baal, Allah, Ishvara, and also... all of those others that nobody believes in anymore.

[Grains]

Originally Posted by InfiniteNow

Grains,

Let me try a little something with you. I am going to use your words, but replace one of them. See how it sounds to you:

In reference to what comfort do UNICORNS bring you there are no words that can explain the true feeling UNICORNS gives me.


I know UNICORNS exist.

I can know because I do know.



You believe I can't know and I know I do. I think I already covered the explanation part seeming it would be impossible for words to describe. As far as proof. If it proof you want I do not have "material" evidence to provide you. As such, UNICORNS are outside the material world so it would be impossible to define/provide laws and definitions to UNICORNS . I am sure that won't be good enough for you as you stated before but any further and I would be preaching. I am not here to preach and turn one to the thinking of mine. I stand by my faith and I also have no reason to prove it to you as that would be impossible considering you want material evidence.

Why should this idea of god be given any special acceptance when you don't do the same thing for UNICORNS ?



Please note: UNICORNS can be replaced with The Tooth Fairy, Leprechauns, The Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, and countless other figments of the imagination.

I understand your argument, I really do.

The difference is that a unicorn carries physical material properties that would be identifiable to one. A unicorn is (been described/drawn/etc) as a horse with a horn in the middle of its head. Since I know the physical properties of a horse and a horn and others know this as well. Exploring the world around us we all could agree nobody has seen a unicorn therefore it is not in existence. God on the other hand, is not material therefore he differs from the unicorn.

Cute example though!

I just noticed you added all of those other things as well so it goes for all of them.

Who says Santa Claus is not real? New thread! :

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Grains

The difference is that a unicorn carries physical material properties that would be identifiable to one. A unicorn is (been described/drawn/etc) as a horse with a horn in the middle of its head. Since I know the physical properties of a horse and a horn and others know this as well. Exploring the world around us we all could agree nobody has seen a unicorn therefore it is not in existence. God on the other hand, is not material therefore he differs from the unicorn.

If that's the basis of your argument, then what about all of the other gods like Zeus, Thor, Baal, Apollo, and the countless others?