[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Grains

I understand the argument you guys are making it is just against my faith and can never-hold true. You say "You are not special" yet millions of others around me have the same faith I do (opened up for organized religion please lets not go down that road). You cannot define "apart from the natural world" so you cannot define laws for it.

So trying to ignore for a moment the talking past one another about facts or proof, can you describe why you believe there is a God? Is it based mostly on what this quote seems to imply that you believe it because lots of other people do? If its more or something else, what is it?

He is their god: he leads them like a thing made by some other deity than nature, that shapes man better; and they follow him, against us brats, with no less confidence than boys pursuing summer butterflies, or butchers killing flies,
Buffy

[Grains]

Originally Posted by modest

Don't worry, they're not special either.



That's my point - neither can you. When faced with the unknown why do people think it's better to make something up than face the fact that it's unknown? Turtles all the way down is better than no turtle at all, eh? I don't get it.

~modest

I guess that is the difference and I don't know how else to say it and I assume you guys have no way else to say it to me. I am not making it up. You feel that I am. I know I am not. It's just one of those things unexplainable by science, rules, and laws. I know you cannot except that and I have not asked you to, or at least meant to ask you to. I have also learned to stick to one thread per one topic (somebody told me to move to another thread) it really through me off in my post.

[Grains]

Originally Posted by Buffy

So trying to ignore for a moment the talking past one another about facts or proof, can you describe why you believe there is a God? Is it based mostly on what this quote seems to imply that you believe it because lots of other people do? If its more or something else, what is it?

He is their god: he leads them like a thing made by some other deity than nature, that shapes man better; and they follow him, against us brats, with no less confidence than boys pursuing summer butterflies, or butchers killing flies,
Buffy

Primarily based on the fact that god exist outside the material world. That was my original point. That whole other thing regarding others was just in regards to modest calling me special, nothing else.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Grains

I understand the argument you guys are making it is just against my faith and can never-hold true. You say "You are not special" yet millions of others around me have the same faith I do (opened up for organized religion please lets not go down that road). You cannot define "apart from the natural world" so you cannot define laws for it.

I guess it would be just as true to say "eat excrement, a billion flys cannot be wrong!" Numbers of believers have no bearing on the truth of anything. If your god is the god of Abraham then you are taking a back seat to the god or gods that have more believers than your god does. Numbers of believers doesn't prove anything if it did all it would prove is that you are wrong.

[Grains]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

I guess it would be just as true to say "eat excrement, a billion flys cannot be wrong!" Numbers of believers have no bearing on the truth of anything. If your god is the god of Abraham then you are taking a back seat to the god or gods that have more believers than your god does. Numbers of believers doesn't prove anything if it did all it would prove is that you are wrong.

You are correct!

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Grains

Primarily based on the fact that god exist outside the material world.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough: my question is *why* you believe that "god exists outside the material world." Is there any reason at all? I'm not asking for proof or facts, just *why* you have come to this conclusion.

More particulars must justify my knowledge,
Buffy

[Grains]

Originally Posted by Buffy

Maybe I wasn't clear enough: my question is *why* you believe that "god exists outside the material world." Is there any reason at all? I'm not asking for proof or facts, just *why* you have come to this conclusion.

More particulars must justify my knowledge,
Buffy

I could never explain to you why as it would not make since to you. I tried making this point earlier. As I could never understand why one could not believe in God and you could never understand why someone could believe in god I cannot explain. If that is not good enough I don't know how else to post.

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Grains

I could never explain to you why as it would not make since to you. I tried making this point earlier. As I could never understand why one could not believe in God and you could never understand why someone could believe in god I cannot explain. If that is not good enough I don't know how else to post.

Now you're making assumptions about my beliefs!

This is the Theology Forum and thus there is leeway (believe it or not) to describe your beliefs here because many of us are trying to understand the source of faith.

One of the foundations of many religions is the notion of "tests of faith" and if your reason for believing in God is solely "always have, don't understand why you wouldn't" that would put you in an extremely small minority of believers! In fact it would raise the suspicions of most believers that you've never really proven that you believe!

Have you never experienced anything in your life that would cause you to work through your belief in God more completely to reaffirm your faith in your own mind?

Faith, I saw it not; but I felt it hot in her breath,
Buffy

[Grains]

Originally Posted by Buffy

Now you're making assumptions about my beliefs!

This is the Theology Forum and thus there is leeway (believe it or not) to describe your beliefs here because many of us are trying to understand the source of faith.

One of the foundations of many religions is the notion of "tests of faith" and if your reason for believing in God is solely "always have, don't understand why you wouldn't" that would put you in an extremely small minority of believers! In fact it would raise the suspicions of most believers that you've never really proven that you believe!

Have you never experienced anything in your life that would cause you to work through your belief in God more completely to reaffirm your faith in your own mind?

Faith, I saw it not; but I felt it hot in her breath,
Buffy

Your right I was presumptuous without cause. Problem is when you have been posting for the past 3 hours and people are pulling me in ten different directions (threads) and you are new to forums you get a little edgy and confused, I am saving that for my new thread Marketing of the Forum.

Buffy I find it quite insulting that you would think I haven't experienced anything in my life that would cause me to work through my belief in God. There are just no particular moments or examples that I wish to share nor care to share with complete strangers especially people who would call it unscientific, ask for proof, probably laugh, and ridicule my very responses that make up my inner self and what I have been through in life. Science cannot define my mind and it never will not matter how many great arguments are made on this thread at 127.0.1.1. To many things in life are just to big for science. Therefore I am just going to concede to your point as I will not share that here.

[InfiniteNow]

Originally Posted by Grains

Science cannot define my mind and it never will

I take that you are not familiar with the amazing work being done in the field of neuroscience.