Does God exist?

[jedaisoul]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

Life can indeed come from non life, as long as the conditions are correct and established life isn't around to supress the process. Life is as inevitable as the result of mixing hydrogen with oxygen is inevitable. When the conditions are right for a long enough period of time life will develope. It works that way for all stages of life as well. Resistance is futile

I agree with Moontanman but would like to expand on this reply. When you look at extremes like a rock and, say,a mammal, of course a rock cannot turn into a mammal in one step. Nor did it. In this case, the distinction between life and non-life is clear. But life does not consist of just one property. It is a collection of properties. If you look at some non-living organic chemicals they possess some, but not all, the properties of life. So in reality the distinction is blurred and arbitrary. We say things are alive if they have all the properties of life, but that they are not if they only have some, or none, of the properties of a living creature.

Having established that the division between life and non-life is not as clear cut as it may appear, it is reasonable to assume that, on many occasions, simple living creatures have developed from, technically, non-living chemicals. It's a matter of mixing the right chemicals in the right circumstances and allowing enough time. Note: I'm not talking about a mammal appearing from a chemical goo. I'm talking about the very simplest microscopic organisms.

That given, the rest is just evolution.

[goku]

Originally Posted by REASON

So you're unwilling to take personal credit for any of the goodness that comes of you, but you accept all the blame for your failings.

The truth is that you are in control of your life and will make choices as you see fit.

In our lives, each of us is capable of many forms of expression, and we learn how to use them as we go through our individual experiences. At some point in our lives we will likely have experienced the full complement of our emotional reactions to situations, from expressions of caring, kindness, and love, to fear, hatred, and anger.

This is what it means to be a human being.

I have, and will continue, to express these ranges of emotions and reactions, yet I don't share your confidence in the reality of God. In your eyes, does the goodness I bring forth come from God? Can I be a vessel of God's love and good will even though I have not established belief in him? If so, than belief in God is not required to receive and spread his grace. If not, than where does my goodness emanate from, if not from God?

I tend to believe that a person's desire to be caring and good comes from the positive reinforcement that they experience in doing so, particularly when positive reinforcement is what they prefer. Unfortunately for some, negative reinforcement is all they believe exists or think they deserve, and that is what they pursue. These are primarily learned behaviors and based on individual experiences.

the only, control i have over my life is what choice to make.

all goodness is of God, the bible says "a form of Godlyness" meaning people will try to do good.

[REASON]

Originally Posted by goku

the only, control i have over my life is what choice to make.

Virtually everything you do, whether good, bad, or indifferent, involves a choice you make.

Originally Posted by goku

all goodness is of God, the bible says "a form of Godlyness" meaning people will try to do good.

In reality, you usually don't have to look very far to find people that do not try to do good, even as they claim to have a relationship with God. Often, claiming allegiance with God and the Bible is really more about creating an image than it is about establishing a pattern of behavior. These situations are also indicative of individual choice.

No matter what the Bible says, Godliness does not guarantee goodness in human behavior. Horrible, vile, inhuman acts have been perpetrated in God's name by righteous people throughout history, and are still occurring today with no interference by God.

[modest]

Originally Posted by goku

all goodness is of God,

By your beliefs: so is all evil.

Originally Posted by goku

the bible says "a form of Godlyness" meaning people will try to do good.

The bible also says "All things were made by Him" Evil, sadism, sin, depravity and indecency and everything else - all came from God. You think God just wants credit for the good things? When he strikes a child dead with lightning you think he doesn't want credit for that?

I think he does. After all, bible says: "God is a jealous God". Giving Satan the credit for evil when its something God came up with may make God jealous.

-modest

[jedaisoul]

Originally Posted by modest

When he strikes a child dead with lightning you think he doesn't want credit for that? I think he does. After all, bible says: "God is a jealous God". Giving Satan the credit for evil when its something God came up with may make God jealous.

But, on the other hand, God created Satan. So perhaps He wants Satan to take the flack for all the evil that He has done, so He can just take the credit for all the good things?

[nutronjon]

In the beginning was chaos. Then there came order. What is the force of this order?

[nutronjon]

Originally Posted by goku

the only, control i have over my life is what choice to make.

all goodness is of God, the bible says "a form of Godlyness" meaning people will try to do good.

Greek mythology is full of stories of youthful foolishness. For example

In Greek mythology Icarus flew too close to the sun, despite warnings from his father Daedalus, and his wings made of wax and feathers melted, and he was killed when he crashed to the ground.

Phaethon set out early one morning to drive the Sun's chariot on its daily journey. As his father feared, Phaethon lost control of the chariot when the scorpion scared the horses. Plunging down, the Sun's searing heat set Mother Earth on fire. She cried out to the gods for help. The king of the gods fired a thunderbolt and killed Phaethon to save Earth. Burning, he fell into the river Eridanus that extinguished the flames.

Demeter told her daughter Persephone to stay in one area until she returned and Persephone went outside of the boundary, with the result of Hades taking her to his underground realm.

There are things that control your life, and you seem youthful because you appear unaware of what they are. The moral of the Greek stories, is that trouble follows such youthful folly. When we do not know our limits and stay within safe boundaries, we get into trouble.

Your signiture indicates a serious misunderstanding of science. Science is to democracy what the bible is to autocracy. Through science we come to know the controlling factors and gain the ability to control for the best and avoid the worst. Conscience- is a knowing that which comes out of a science of life. Con is to study, and science is knowledge of life.

When we become aware of the forces that control our lives, we become authorities, ready to participate in self government.

[HydrogenBond]

Our perception of God has changed as humanity matured. The Old Testament God was morally neutral able to control life and death. The reason was, Satan was still in heaven at that time, as God's left hand man. The best example, is the book of Job, with God letting his behavior become influenced by Satan, with Satan appearing to call the shots as his advisor. For example, Satan would say, take this away from Job and I bet he messes up. God would just do it as though he needed this advice or he needed Satan's approval. Satan had been put in charge of the earth and therefore was a specialist when it came to humans, so his advice counted.

Technically, Satan is not thrown from heaven until the end of the New Testament in Revelations. So Satan was in heaven, at the same time Christ had returned to heaven, after his death, since John did not write revelations until decades later. If prophesy have not yet occurred, then Satan is still in heaven. It is only when the drama gets going is he displaced. It is possible the ID orientation, being based on old testament writings, is based on a time when God was influenced of Satan, making it part illusion.

Here is the analogy. The old testament is sort analogous to Newtonian gravity. While the New Testament is like relativity. The classical Newtonian gravity is still taught because it has practical value. Relativity is harder to grasp but becomes more relevant at extreme conditions. ID is sort of using Newtonian gravity to explain things that are more accurately described with relativity. The New Testament doesn't try to do physics. It renders onto Caesar=science what belongs to science. This new attitude is based on when Satan's position in heaven is starting to get shakier with God as he changes his primary advisor to Christ.

Satan's tree is knowledge of good and evil. Genesis is sort of influenced by Satan, being both good and evil or real and an illusion at the same time. This is why it needs to be looked at symbolically. The goal is not to get too literal but to filter out the illusion aspect. In other words, there is a grain of truth, but Satan's polar nature adds a layer of deception that one needs to filter. Ignoring this was fine during that time in ancient history, since God had Satan as advisor and it was consistent with God's choice.

But God has since evolved changing his key advisor away from Satan. If prophesy is still in the future, than Satan may still come to meetings but his chair is further down the table with him starting to lobby for a hostile take-over. Satan is going to show his old testament resume, since at one time, such as in Job, he was sort of calling the shots when it came to the humans. The Old Testament law, including literal genesis and other types of things, were all superseded when Christ became God's new primary advisor. To go backwards denies it was superseded, lobbying for the old days when Satan was the primary advisor to God.

[Thunderbird]

Originally Posted by nutronjon

In the beginning was chaos. Then there came order. What is the force of this order?

preexsisting order. next question would be..?

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Thunderbird

preexsisting order. next question would be..?

Oh! I love this! Then where did the preexisting order come from? Is it turtles all the way down?