[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Majeston

I might have missed the quote that you are referring to, so could you point out the part of the Urantia papers that say that sodium is a major component of our sun.

I apologize Majeston I was totally wrong, sodium is not mentioned as being a major component of the sun, it was calcium, as in these quotes from the Urantia book provided by Turtle.

Originally Posted by Urantia 41:6.2
Calcium is, in fact, the chief element of the matter-permeation of space throughout Orvonton. Our whole superuniverse is sprinkled with minutely pulverized stone. Stone is literally the basic building matter for the planets and spheres of space. The cosmic cloud, the great space blanket, consists for the most part of the modified atoms of calcium. The stone atom is one of the most prevalent and persistent of the elements. It not only endures solar ionization—splitting—but persists in an associative identity even after it has been battered by the destructive X rays and shattered by the high solar temperatures. Calcium possesses an individuality and a longevity excelling all of the more common forms of matter. ...

Originally Posted by Urantia
41:6.3 As your physicists have suspected, these mutilated remnants of solar calcium literally ride the light beams for varied distances, and thus their widespread dissemination throughout space is tremendously facilitated. The sodium atom, under certain modifications, is also capable of light and energy locomotion. The calcium feat is all the more remarkable since this element has almost twice the mass of sodium. Local space-permeation by calcium is due to the fact that it escapes from the solar photosphere, in modified form, by literally riding the outgoing sunbeams. Of all the solar elements, calcium, notwithstanding its comparative bulk—containing as it does twenty revolving electrons—is the most successful in escaping from the solar interior to the realms of space. This explains why there is a calcium layer, a gaseous stone surface, on the sun six thousand miles thick; and this despite the fact that nineteen lighter elements, and numerous heavier ones, are underneath. ...

The suggestion that calcium is the main component of the universe or even a major is demonstratively false. Calcium is far down the list and a minor constituent of the universe. Yes there is proof of this, spectral data confirms that calcium is a minor part of the universe as it is in the sun, no 6000 mile layer in the sun.

Elements in the sun.

Element Abundance (% of total Abundance
number of atoms) (% of total mass)
Hydrogen 91.2 71.0
Helium 8.7 27.1
Oxygen 0.078 0.97
Carbon 0.043 0.40
Nitrogen 0.0088 0.096
Silicon 0.0045 0.099
Magnesium 0.0038 0.076
Neon 0.0035 0.058
Iron 0.030 0.014
Sulfur 0.015 0.040

Calcium is not even in the top ten in the universe. Even on the "rocky earth" calcium is till a minor element. Here are the seven most common elements of the earth by percentage.

34.6% Iron
29.5% Oxygen
15.2% Silicon
12.7% Magnesium
2.4% Nickel
1.9% Sulfur
0.05% Titanium

[Majeston]

Originally Posted by Moontanman

I apologize Majeston I was totally wrong, sodium is not mentioned as being a major component of the sun, it was calcium, as in these quotes from the Urantia book provided by Turtle.

Originally Posted by Urantia 41:6.2
Calcium is, in fact, the chief element of the matter-permeation of space throughout Orvonton.
......
The suggestion that calcium is the main component of the universe or even a major is demonstratively false. Calcium is far down the list and a minor constituent of the universe. Yes there is proof of this, spectral data confirms that calcium is a minor part of the universe as it is in the sun, no 6000 mile layer in the sun.

Thanks Moontan,
I am quite well aware of the elemental proportions which you cite as your "proof". They are incorrect. The spectral analysis and conclusions are incorrect.

41:6.1 In deciphering spectral phenomena, it should be remembered that space is not empty; that light, in traversing space, is sometimes slightly modified by the various forms of energy and matter which circulate in all organized space. Some of the lines indicating unknown matter which appear in the spectra of your sun are due to modifications of well-known elements which are floating throughout space in shattered form, the atomic casualties of the fierce encounters of the solar elemental battles. Space is pervaded by these wandering derelicts, especially sodium and calcium.

41:6.2 Calcium is, in fact, the chief element of the matter-permeation of space throughout Orvonton.
>>>>>
41:6.7 It should be remembered that spectral analyses show only sun-surface compositions. For example: Solar spectra exhibit many iron lines, but iron is not the chief element in the sun. This phenomenon is almost wholly due to the present temperature of the sun's surface, a little less than 6,000 degrees, this temperature being very favorable to the registry of the iron spectrum.

>>>>>>>>12:4.14 Although your spectroscopic estimations of astronomic velocities are fairly reliable when applied to the starry realms belonging to your superuniverse and its associate superuniverses, such reckonings with reference to the realms of outer space are wholly unreliable. Spectral lines are displaced from the normal towards the violet by an approaching star; likewise these lines are displaced towards the red by a receding star. Many influences interpose to make it appear that the recessional velocity of the external universes increases at the rate of more than one hundred miles a second for every million light-years increase in distance. By this method of reckoning, subsequent to the perfection of more powerful telescopes, it will appear that these far-distant systems are in flight from this part of the universe at the unbelievable rate of more than thirty thousand miles a second. But this apparent speed of recession is not real; it results from numerous factors of error embracing angles of observation and other time-space distortions.

12:4.15 But the greatest of all such distortions arises because the vast universes of outer space in the realms next to the domains of the seven superuniverses, seem to be revolving in a direction opposite to that of the grand universe. That is, these myriads of nebulae and their accompanying suns and spheres are at the present time revolving clockwise about the central creation. The seven superuniverses revolve about Paradise in a counterclockwise direction. It appears that the second outer universe of galaxies, like the seven superuniverses, revolves counterclockwise about Paradise. And the astronomic observers of Uversa think they detect evidence of revolutionary movements in a third outer belt of far-distant space which are beginning to exhibit directional tendencies of a clockwise nature.

I am working on presenting the 6 items I promised you, maybe I will give you 10 or 20 depending on your and others attitude, as well as my own. I'd just like the presentation to be as coherent as possible, nothing is going to be "proven" here and I'm sure no minds or positions changed by any of the material. What you don't seem to understand is that The Urantia papers are unlike anything else you have ever experienced or will ever experience. They are an "epochal revelation" of spiritual truth to Earth. A gift so to speak. They are not a scientific treatise although the science is probably 100% accurate allowing for an original typo or translation phenomenon such as confusion between mass and size. The science comprises perhaps 100 or so pages of a 2100 page revelation. It is not like the "bible" or book of Mormon; Koran; Keys of Enoch; Cayce; or anything else you have or will come across.

Thanks Cal for your words of wisdom and advice, but how can I really take the Cal handle seriously. In this gathering of forces though, I suppose I should be grateful for any help I get from whatever source.

[REASON]

Originally Posted by Majeston

It is not like the "bible" or book of Mormon; Koran; Keys of Enoch; Cayce; or anything else you have or will come across.

While the Urantia Papers may be unlike any of those other scriptures, your faith in them is the same.

[Majeston]

The Big Bang Never Happened

"In the next millennium scientists and other people looking back likely will regard it much the way we look back on the cosmology of Aristotle, a quaint theory that people believed in for a while."


The Urantia Book

[Moontanman]

Thanks Moontan,
I am quite well aware of the elemental proportions which you cite as your "proof". They are incorrect. The spectral analysis and conclusions are incorrect.

41:6.1 In deciphering spectral phenomena, it should be remembered that space is not empty; that light, in traversing space, is sometimes slightly modified by the various forms of energy and matter which circulate in all organized space. Some of the lines indicating unknown matter which appear in the spectra of your sun are due to modifications of well-known elements which are floating throughout space in shattered form, the atomic casualties of the fierce encounters of the solar elemental battles. Space is pervaded by these wandering derelicts, especially sodium and calcium.

What evidence do you have that would refute spectral evidence? the so called unknown spectral lines you speak of are just regular matter lines that are displaced by speed absorption and distance. No unknown elements or lines exist.

41:6.2 Calcium is, in fact, the chief element of the matter-permeation of space throughout Orvonton.
>>>>>
41:6.7 It should be remembered that spectral analyses show only sun-surface compositions. For example: Solar spectra exhibit many iron lines, but iron is not the chief element in the sun. This phenomenon is almost wholly due to the present temperature of the sun's surface, a little less than 6,000 degrees, this temperature being very favorable to the registry of the iron spectrum.

True, iron does appear but it is still a tiny component of the sun and this can be seen by the spectral lines, th entire contents of the sun can be seen in it';s spectral lines not just the surface. what you say is nonsensical to the laws of physics.

>>>>>>>>12:4.14 Although your spectroscopic estimations of astronomic velocities are fairly reliable when applied to the starry realms belonging to your superuniverse and its associate superuniverses, such reckonings with reference to the realms of outer space are wholly unreliable. Spectral lines are displaced from the normal towards the violet by an approaching star; likewise these lines are displaced towards the red by a receding star. Many influences interpose to make it appear that the recessional velocity of the external universes increases at the rate of more than one hundred miles a second for every million light-years increase in distance. By this method of reckoning, subsequent to the perfection of more powerful telescopes, it will appear that these far-distant systems are in flight from this part of the universe at the unbelievable rate of more than thirty thousand miles a second. But this apparent speed of recession is not real; it results from numerous factors of error embracing angles of observation and other time-space distortions.

All these things are taken into account by astronomers and science. all you have is the book of Urantia and no other source to back it up. I'll tell you again you cannot use the book of Urantia to back up it's own predictions.

12:4.15 But the greatest of all such distortions arises because the vast universes of outer space in the realms next to the domains of the seven superuniverses, seem to be revolving in a direction opposite to that of the grand universe. That is, these myriads of nebulae and their accompanying suns and spheres are at the present time revolving clockwise about the central creation. The seven superuniverses revolve about Paradise in a counterclockwise direction. It appears that the second outer universe of galaxies, like the seven superuniverses, revolves counterclockwise about Paradise. And the astronomic observers of Uversa think they detect evidence of revolutionary movements in a third outer belt of far-distant space which are beginning to exhibit directional tendencies of a clockwise nature.

Please stop insulting me by using claims from this book to back up the claims in this book. If you have no independent verification of this stuff it cannot be used as fact or even evidence.

I am working on presenting the 6 items I promised you, maybe I will give you 10 or 20 depending on your and others attitude, as well as my own. I'd just like the presentation to be as coherent as possible, nothing is going to be "proven" here and I'm sure no minds or positions changed by any of the material. What you don't seem to understand is that The Urantia papers are unlike anything else you have ever experienced or will ever experience. They are an "epochal revelation" of spiritual truth to Earth. A gift so to speak. They are not a scientific treatise although the science is probably 100% accurate allowing for an original typo or translation phenomenon such as confusion between mass and size. The science comprises perhaps 100 or so pages of a 2100 page revelation. It is not like the "bible" or book of Mormon; Koran; Keys of Enoch; Cayce; or anything else you have or will come across.

Urantia is exactly like those books except it has the nerve to make claims about science that cannot be backed up.

Thanks Cal for your words of wisdom and advice, but how can I really take the Cal handle seriously. In this gathering of forces though, I suppose I should be grateful for any help I get from whatever source.

Please don't use the book to verify your claims when you present the six things we talked about, it really makes you look like you are just not trying.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Majeston

The Big Bang Never Happened

"In the next millennium scientists and other people looking back likely will regard it much the way we look back on the cosmology of Aristotle, a quaint theory that people believed in for a while."


The Urantia Book

Then again the Urantia book will be thought of as another bull shit religion that tried to establish it's self through misdirection, obfuscation and lies.

[Majeston]

Moontan,

if you find yourself in LA next week drop by UCLA, the Urantia "bookies" with that bullshit religion have leased the entire campus for a week for their world conference. I'm sure we can give you a few minutes of stage time so you could address the entire assembly in person with your thought and ideas.
Urantia Book Fellowship Conference July 2nd <-> 6th 2008 - UCLA IC08 - God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit

[Caligastia]

Originally Posted by Majeston

Thanks Cal for your words of wisdom and advice, but how can I really take the Cal handle seriously. In this gathering of forces though, I suppose I should be grateful for any help I get from whatever source.

I realize I didn't choose the best UB name for my handle, but I've used it for years now so I'm used to it. And what's in a name? I'm sure there must be another personality out there somewhere with this name...someone who didn't betray their trust. Don't think I'm a fan of the Caligastia described in the UB - it's just a name.

[Moontanman]

Originally Posted by Majeston

Moontan,

if you find yourself in LA next week drop by UCLA, the Urantia "bookies" with that bullshit religion have leased the entire campus for a week for their world conference. I'm sure we can give you a few minutes of stage time so you could address the entire assembly in person with your thought and ideas.
Urantia Book Fellowship Conference July 2nd <-> 6th 2008 - UCLA IC08 - God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit

The size of a pile of bull shit doesn't change the fact it's bullshit. Proving your book Of Urantia will take more than a leased campus and lots of followers. Simply showing it has a basis in reality would be far more proof than a trillion people saying it's true.

[Moontanman]

So I guess that instead of giving me the six things in the book of Urantia that can be proved with science you are going to ignore me? You agreed to do this and said you could do it. So far all you have done is.....

Make claims with no proof
Use the Urantia writings as proof to prove the urantia writings
And last but not least try to show how they must be true because you can rent a university campus to spew the writings to your own followers.
Wow too bad I live about as far from that university as I can get and still be in the Continental US. How wonderful it must be to be in the midst of all that mental masturbation.