[Majeston]

OutsideTheBox
is much more diplomatic than I am and also appears quite knowledgeable on the topic.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Majeston

Turtle,

you know,

I credited you with having more intelligence than you exhibit here. Perhaps I should not have.

No worries; go with your gut.

Originally Posted by Majestron

You are not actually trying to tell me that the "theory" earth scientists have about how many thousands of miles a layer of calcium is on the sun which may differ from the Urantia papers account is actually some kind of proof of infallibility are you? I'm sure you can do better than that.

Nothing is infallible and I put my confidence in the amendability of science. Either having scientific information in Urantia is somehow important to the author(s) & us, or it is not. If it is important, either it is justifiable with current science or it is not.

Originally Posted by Majestron

We can't even tell what is inside the earth past a couple of miles.

That is simply not the case. Please visit the Hypography Earth Science forum area to peruse a variety of threads on what we know of Earth's interior. >> Earth science - Science Forums

Originally Posted by Majestron

If the Urantia papers tell you the calcium layer is 6000 miles thick, you can take it to the bank, otherwise just skip it and stop being silly.

That's just plain...silly.

Originally Posted by Majestron

You should probably reread the caveats about earned and unearned knowledge as well as the limits of revelation.

Yes of course; more stylistic examples of reminding the dear poor stupid reader they aren't up to snuff.

Originally Posted by Majestron

Concerning eugenics, you can interpret that any way you wish with whatever personal bias you currently entertain. Rather than taking stuff out of context to try to appear politically correct you might do better to try to understand the issue as well as the validity of the information.

I am trying to appear as one who has read the book and who can recognize and point out what I see as inconsistencies, complications, and contradictions. If you knew me better, political correctness is the last quality you would ascribe to me.

Originally Posted by Majestron

IIRC there are at least 3 papers already dealing with it for public consumption on the Fellowship website that you might peruse to broaden your personal misconceptions and bias rather that latching onto "trigger words" or soundbites to bolster your erroneous hardened position of skepticism.

I haven't latched onto anything from others here; it is my own analysis. Before you further castigate me for my reading habits, please recall that I have read each & every word in the Urantia Book.

[Majeston]

please recall that I have read each & every word in the Urantia Book.

there is a big difference between reading and studying; researching; understanding and comprehending.

I am trying to appear as one who has read the book and who can recognize and point out what I see as inconsistencies, complications, and contradictions.

you might be trying to "appear" that way, but you have failed miserably.
there are no inconsistencies or contradictions in the entire 2097 pages. It is a seamless perfect document, unlike anything else on the planet including your "holy of holies". If you really think so, then point one out.
As far as complications, the only complication is that your experience; position and mentality and understanding is simply not up to par.

Yes of course; more stylistic examples of reminding the dear poor stupid reader they aren't up to snuff.

I just answered that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestron
We can't even tell what is inside the earth past a couple of miles.
That is simply not the case. Please visit the Hypography Earth Science forum area to peruse a variety of threads on what we know of Earth's interior. >> Earth science - Science Forums

No, you go read it. Anything past what we actually know is simply unproven theory. Earth science has a nasty habit of changing their theories every time they make a new discovery that invalidates their previous theory; usually on a monthly basis in one area or another. At least with the Urantia papers they know what they are talking about and science eventually discovers what Urantia has already told them as in the 3 small examples I gave you in the prior post. If you need more examples I can provide them, but I hate to do your work for you. I've already done mine.

That's just plain...silly.

No, you're just being dense and lazy.

You seem to be forgetting that for all the wonderful fantastic discoveries science has made, it is still in its infancy. It basically knows almost nothing about reality. You also seem to be forgetting that the Urantia papers have been in continuous publication for now for 53 years and believe it or not, there are some scientists who have actually studied them and have been using them to make new discoveries. Of course no respectable scientist would ever associate their name with them except for a brave few because the "establishment" would laugh them out of their job. In the end though, people like Mcmenamin and Kary Mullis will have the last laugh. Like it or not, it is still Planet of the Apes.

Nothing is infallible and I put my confidence in the amendability of science. Either having scientific information in Urantia is somehow important to the author(s) & us, or it is not. If it is important, either it is justifiable with current science or it is not.

this is simply the most ignorant statement I have heard all day.

[Majeston]

one more thing while we're here Turtle,
The Urantia papers is not a science book nor is it meant to be one. The science; although valid and accurate comprise only a small handful of the 196 papers. The Urantia papers are a spiritual epochal revelation, a manual for your future universe career towards infinity and God. It should be required reading; eventually it will be. It is a revelation of Universal truth. It is how things really are and how things work. Your ability to understand; comprehend and implement the information depends on your experience; intelligence and faith. Where you find yourself at any given moment usually is not where you will be tomorrow. If you are still hung up on the "science", (present day Earth science vs. Urantia science discrepancies) in order to nullify or ridicule an epochal spiritual revelation, it is a sure sign that you are headed in the wrong direction and you have not understood what you have read nor its significance.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Majeston

one more thing while we're here Turtle,
... If you are still hung up on the "science", (present day Earth science vs. Urantia science discrepancies) in order to nullify or ridicule an epochal spiritual revelation, it is a sure sign that you are headed in the wrong direction and you have not understood what you have read nor its significance.

Consider that this is a science web site, and that you have no less ridicule hanging than I. If you can't reply without insults, and/or stay on the science aspect, perhaps you haven't advanced as spiritually as you would have us believe.

[Majeston]

Science Forums > Humanities Forums > Theology forum

I think we happen to be in the theology forum discussing both science and theology.

And, I suppose that you don't think ......."perhaps you haven't advanced as spiritually as you would have us believe"........ is not your insult or ridicule as well as many of your other posts of ridicule and insult??????????

Look Turtle, I am not here to ridicule or insult anyone, that is IIRC what I responded to rather than initiated. I would love to discuss the concepts beyond the superficial level that is addressed here with you and I think you have actually stated that you have been reading this for over 15 years.

If you want to discuss science then great, I brought up 3 points that we can start with. If you have others then greattttttt bring it on, but at least bring it on in a professional manner instead of running away when it gets hot in the kitchen; especially when you have been doing the cooking.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Majeston

I think we happen to be in the theology forum discussing both science and theology.

And, I suppose that you don't think ......."perhaps you haven't advanced as spiritually as you would have us believe"........ is not your insult or ridicule as well as many of your other posts of ridicule and insult??????????

Look Turtle, I am not here to ridicule or insult anyone, that is IIRC what I responded to rather than initiated. I would love to discuss the concepts beyond the superficial level that is addressed here with you and I think you have actually stated that you have been reading this for over 15 years.

If you want to discuss science then great, I brought up 3 points that we can start with. If you have others then greattttttt bring it on, but at least bring it on in a professional manner instead of running away when it gets hot in the kitchen; especially when you have been doing the cooking.

Touche! But on the face of it, you claim a superior spiritual knowledge and yet can't rise above the vulgar any more than lazy ol' me. I never claimed I was spiritually advanced afterall. Speaking of dodging, what about the Calcium? Either it is the most abundant element in the Universe and hydrogen isn't, or otherwise. Either there is a 6,000 mile layer of calcium on the Sun, or there isn't. Scientists? What say ye?

IIRC?

[Majeston]

Turtle,

greatttttttt; we're making progress.

Either there is a 6,000 mile layer of calcium on the Sun, or there isn't. Scientists? What say ye?

Look, first of all it doesn't matter what the scientists say about this, because they don't know. All they have is a theory and a model and apparently not an accurate one. Every single day in science or astronomy or biology or whatever you see a new discovery and you see it said that the scientists are "surprised" because they never expected it, and they have to rework their models or theories. That is also the case with calcium.

Earlier OUTSIDETHEBOX gave you a few links about new discoveries regarding calcium which completely destroyed their current "theories", and even their new models and theories are still wrong. WE CANNOT MEASURE CALCIUM IN THE UNIVERSE WITH ACCURACY. The Urantia papers writers can and did because they know. They MADE the universe !!!!!!!!!


from Space.com

[quote]

Like milk, our Milky Way Galaxy and the rest of the universe is fortified with calcium, the stuff of strong bones. In fact, the cosmos contains 50 percent more calcium than previously thought, a new study suggests.

.........

The researchers compared the amounts of the products expected from theoretical models of supernovae with measurements from XMM-Newton X-ray observatory within 22 galaxy clusters. The observed amounts for seven elements--oxygen, neon, silicon, sulfur, argon, iron and nickel--jibed with theoretical predictions, but the calcium did not match up.


"Since we checked that there was nothing wrong with our measurements, we concluded that the supernova model (theoretical) must be under predicting the calcium abundance," De Plaa said.


"If certain types of supernovae indeed produce more calcium, then this means that there must be more calcium in the universe compared to the predictions from the supernova models," De Plaa said. "Then this is not only true for clusters, but also for our solar system and everything that lives in it, because we are mostly made of the same supernova products."


Turtle,

I'm really not trying to insult you or ridicule you, in a way I look at you like a lost brother. You tell me that you have been reading the Urantia papers for 15 years now and are still having trouble believing them. I can see you're at and maybe you need to spend some time in a study group where you can talk to people about your doubts and complications and get some meaningful feedback. There is one in at least every major city and some are better than others. If you're anywhere near Seattle there is a wonderful group there.

I never said I was so spiritually advanced and a few digs certainly doesn't make anyone less so; just a little human. It would seem that you have an idea that spiritually advanced means that everyone has to walk around like mother teresa or something. My spiritual advancement petains to helping you sort out these doubts of yours. It will not infect you nor afflict you. You can still maintain your interest in science because it will certainly be with us for a very long time. There are celestial physicists you know, so there will be a job waiting if that's what you're interested in.

There's an interesting paper by Dr. Chris Halvorson who happens to be a Urantian and also a physicist which you may be interested in at....

http://urantiabook.org/archive/reade...n_histlife.pdf


Chris also has a few other papers as well as others of interest here.....
What's New on the Urantia Book Website?


If you find anything of interest and wish to talk more about it, let me know.

good luck.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by Majeston

Turtle,

greatttttttt; we're making progress.

Look, first of all it doesn't matter what the scientists say about this, because they don't know. All they have is a theory and a model and apparently not an accurate one. Every single day in science or astronomy or biology or whatever you see a new discovery and you see it said that the scientists are "surprised" because they never expected it, and they have to rework their models or theories. That is also the case with calcium.

This is no more than an opinion, and one I don't share. Moreover, you have , in my opinion, seriously mis-characterized science. If the science doesn't matter, why do you or the Urantia authors bother with it? Why try to make it correct? Why discuss it at all?

Originally Posted by Majesty

Earlier OUTSIDETHEBOX gave you a few links about new discoveries regarding calcium which completely destroyed their current "theories", and even their new models and theories are still wrong. WE CANNOT MEASURE CALCIUM IN THE UNIVERSE WITH ACCURACY. The Urantia papers writers can and did because they know. They MADE the universe !!!!!!!!!

Continuing to insist you're right, simply because you say so, is futile. You mentioned a 50% increase in the expected amount, but failed to mention the actual percentage overall. From Outsidetheboxs' link:

Originally Posted by NASA

• When the star explodes, the hydrogen, calcium,
and other elements fly off into space, and the explosion creates even more. The total amount of calcium is equal to 0.0165% the mass of the original star. ...

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/te...cium_litho.pdf

Originally Posted by Majestator

There's an interesting paper by Dr. Chris Halvorson who happens to be a Urantian and also a physicist which you may be interested in at....

http://urantiabook.org/archive/reade...n_histlife.pdf

Chris also has a few other papers as well as others of interest here.....
What's New on the Urantia Book Website?

If you find anything of interest and wish to talk more about it, let me know.

good luck.

So we're Urantian's now huh? I thought the book said we weren't supposed to make a religion out of this!?
I'll have a look at my usual pace.

[Chacmool]

Originally Posted by Majeston

Earth science has a nasty habit of changing their theories every time they make a new discovery that invalidates their previous theory; usually on a monthly basis in one area or another.

Actually, it's no "nasty habit" at all. Self-scrutiny is the very essence of science. Unlike religion, science isn't afraid of critical examination and constant improvement.