Re: Urantia Book: Complications and Contradictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle
I think 'sort of an umbrella motive' is quite an understatement. I find this passage and many similar in the book, nothing more than writers' devices used to demean the 'poor stupid humans' and set up a false authority to enforce the belief the work is 'from on high', and the reader 'from on low'.
I figured you'd say that. And it really isn't an unreasonable position. But, having read the book I didn't take the same 'poor stupid humans' message at all from the reading. Quite the contrary, actually...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle
I didn't know about the government business, but after reading a few pages of the link & then seeing what a small portion those pages were of the whole, I laid off. For years after I contacted the Urantia Foundation with questions on the origins of the book, I received literally reams of reports about their own internal legal problems. How many trees died for that? Just how does one copyright the writings of angels anyway.
Skull & Bones is a newbie to me too, at least as a connection to Urantia; it is a whole discussion in itself Captain Russel might have said.
The government involvement and conspiracy theories therein are also new to me. I'd never seen that before, but it really is strange (and notable) to see the apparent historical employment of some of these people... Weird (yes, weird in a different way for me as a believer - and as one who distrusts the government on a number of fronts).
The lawsuits are also bothersome and long turned me off. People are still people, though, and they will disagree and litigate over almost anything. The history of the lawsuits, while disturbing, aren't difficult to understand in the context of protection of the copyright vs. the desires of others who didn't believe in the copyright. If these govt operatives were involved somehow (via the Foundation and/or Brotherhood) then maybe they wanted a court battle (or not)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle
While every effort is made by the Book itself, and commentors as well, to deemphasize the science and numbers, one has to wonder if they're so unimportant put them in there at all. My answer is, bamboozlement; smoke & mirrors. I might add I am of the opinion that Jesus was no less a con-man, bamboozler, and parlor magician par-excelence.
Agreed, again, that the science isn't all that important. Though, I don't abree about the bamboozlement (I love the word though)... I don't agree about Jesus, either (perhaps obviously). I never believed he was any more than a great guy of his time until TUB. After reading it, though (and ultimately becoming a believer), I can fully understand how the Bible got so messed up...
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Originally Posted by Turtle
Here's a contradiction I think I recall from the Urantia; a statement that calcium is the most abundant element in the Universe. What's up with that?
Interestingly, and thought-provokingly, a quick bit of research seems to turn up a vast abundance of calcium in space. And, just recently it appears a new means of measuring calcium in space is showing far more than the 'expert' models predicted... I suggest it may not be quite the contradiction you imagined...
Re: Urantia Book: Complications and Contradictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by OutsideTheBox
...Agreed, again, that the science isn't all that important. Though, I don't abree about the bamboozlement (I love the word though)... I don't agree about Jesus, either (perhaps obviously). I never believed he was any more than a great guy of his time until TUB. After reading it, though (and ultimately becoming a believer), I can fully understand how the Bible got so messed up...
Interestingly, and thought-provokingly, a quick bit of research seems to turn up a vast abundance of calcium in space. And, just recently it appears a new means of measuring calcium in space is showing far more than the 'expert' models predicted... I suggest it may not be quite the contradiction you imagined...
I'm a bit confused on the agreement about science you give, as I think the science is the key component of the work. As I say, if it is unimportant, then why include it?
Great science articles; worthy of our news page even. However, as I recall, the book says calcium is the most abundant element and the new discoveries notwithstanding, hydrogen is the most abundant element in the Universe the last time I checked with the authorities I have the most confidence in. Given what you quoted earlier that claimed the book couldn't reveal as yet unknown information, then we come back to a contradiction.
__________________ Brevity. ~Roger Thelonious George
Re: Urantia Book: Complications and Contradictions
Just thinking out loud and wondering if anyone has done any stylometric comparisons between the published final work and Sadler's other writings or other contributors and possible original sources? Even comparing the over all style with some of these techniques might give some useful general conclusions about the author(s) and/or an historical context.
Re: Urantia Book: Complications and Contradictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtle
Just thinking out loud and wondering if anyone has done any stylometric comparisons between the published final work and Sadler's other writings or other contributors and possible original sources? Even comparing the over all style with some of these techniques might give some useful general conclusions about the author(s) and/or an historical context.
Re: Urantia Book: Complications and Contradictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majeston
yes
results negative.
Sweet! Any references we can get to online of a stylometric analysis of Urantia? As a schooled writer, I give the style a "Hard to read" rating, and so maintain this is another complication for the book. Such talented netherworldians and unable (unwilling?) to write plainly & simply.
__________________ Brevity. ~Roger Thelonious George
On just the first reference: I personally don't think Sadler did this alone, and completely agree that we have here in the Urantia multiple authors & editors, and so this particular analysis doesn't seem to offer any more than support of that opinion.
Also in this particular analysis, the questioning of the 'why' these folk would write this, does not allow that they indeed believe(d) it, just as J.C. Knight believes she channels Rhamtha. As I pointed out in the Urantia Hoaxed thread, the timing and location of the book's conception puts it solidly in the Chicago Worlds Fair and the meetings there of the Parliament of World Religions. The Urantia fulfills (attempts to fulfill in my opinion) the goal of this group. Parliament of the World's Religions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
post #147 >> http://hypography.com/forums/theolog...hoaxed-15.html
__________________ Brevity. ~Roger Thelonious George
Re: Urantia Book: Complications and Contradictions
Turtle,
if I were swimming upstream as long as you have in this particular river, my arms would be pretty tired by now and my mind might have figured out that I was headed in the wrong direction.
Re: Urantia Book: Complications and Contradictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majeston
Turtle,
if I were swimming upstream as long as you have in this particular river, my arms would be pretty tired by now and my mind might have figured out that I was headed in the wrong direction.
Are you suggesting that he should therefore just give up and allow himself to be carried back down this stream of Urantia Book nonsense?
__________________ When what you believe is refuted by evidence, you are faced with a choice.
Re: Urantia Book: Complications and Contradictions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majeston
Turtle,
if I were swimming upstream as long as you have in this particular river, my arms would be pretty tired by now and my mind might have figured out that I was headed in the wrong direction.
Everyone knows the source of any brook is upstream, and any gold miner worth their salt knows the same is true of gold. Besides, I had a 20 year career teaching swimming & water safety, and you needn't worry yourself over my facility about water. Reach, throw, row, and go.
I read your other links, and note they are all from the Urantia Brotherhood, and as I have said before, I was on their mailing list for 15 years and know something of the contemporary politics & squabbles within the organization(s). Quite simply, the log of bias in the eye of adherents, is obscuring the view of the specks in the eyes of skeptics.
Now back to the contradictory complication over the mention of Calcium in Urantia book.
Not calcium yet, but this is some kinda bamboozle passage here that I find typical of stylistic writing meant to obfuscate while demeaning the readers intellignece. Why you stupid little human, you can't unserstand even if we told you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urantia 41:5.8
The action of certain secondary and other undiscovered energies present in the space regions of your local universe is such that solar-light emanations appear to execute certain wavy phenomena as well as to be chopped up into infinitesimal portions of definite length and weight. And, practically considered, that is exactly what happens. You can hardly hope to arrive at a better understanding of the behavior of light until such a time as you acquire a clearer concept of the interaction and interrelationship of the various space-forces and solar energies operating in the space regions of Nebadon. Your present confusion is also due to your incomplete grasp of this problem as it involves the interassociated activities of the personal and nonpersonal control of the master universe—the presences, the performances, and the co-ordination of the Conjoint Actor and the Unqualified Absolute. ...
No wait!! It's the section right after the above. Let's see if this is contrary or complicated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urantia 41:6.2
Calcium is, in fact, the chief element of the matter-permeation of space throughout Orvonton. Our whole superuniverse is sprinkled with minutely pulverized stone. Stone is literally the basic building matter for the planets and spheres of space. The cosmic cloud, the great space blanket, consists for the most part of the modified atoms of calcium. The stone atom is one of the most prevalent and persistent of the elements. It not only endures solar ionization—splitting—but persists in an associative identity even after it has been battered by the destructive X rays and shattered by the high solar temperatures. Calcium possesses an individuality and a longevity excelling all of the more common forms of matter. ...
__________________ Brevity. ~Roger Thelonious George
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For years after I contacted the Urantia Foundation with questions on the origins of the book, I received literally reams of reports about their own internal legal problems. How many trees died for that? 
Just how does one copyright the writings of angels anyway. 
I don't agree about Jesus, either (perhaps obviously). I never believed he was any more than a great guy of his time until TUB. After reading it, though (and ultimately becoming a believer), I can fully understand how the Bible got so messed up...
Re: Urantia Book: Complications and Contradictions 
Brevity. ~Roger Thelonious George 
As a schooled writer, I give the style a "Hard to read" rating, and so maintain this is another complication for the book. Such talented netherworldians and unable (unwilling?) to write plainly & simply. 
Everyone knows the source of any brook is upstream, and any gold miner worth their salt knows the same is true of gold. Besides, I had a 20 year career teaching swimming & water safety, and you needn't worry yourself over my facility about water. Reach, throw, row, and go. 
