What God Knows

[Michael Mooney]

Pamela:

well that would put the believer on the same level as God and hence making them gods as well.The essence of God would be in the person as God would be in everything, but Lewis does not suggest that the believer is deity or even partial deity

"On the same level as God" seems to be the source of confusion here.
If God's body is the whole cosmos and consciousness omnipresent, we human bodies/brains are clearly extremely small parts of that Greater Whole but and this is a big one (no pun intended )... omni-present consciousness means everywhere present... same consciousness in all of us parts... our Identity as "one with God" as I have previously illustrated with quotes from mystics who realize their unity with God in all Traditions.

Hope this clarifies what I meant.
Michael

[watcher]

rade, hb ..

by your description of god as it relates to time,
i found no distinction between god and a photon.

[Rade]

Originally Posted by watcher

rade, hb .. by your description of god as it relates to time,
i found no distinction between god and a photon.

In that they both exist forever, there is no distinction, for that which is forever is outside of time--same for that which does not exist. In that one is called god, the other, photon, distinction is found. No good reason I can think of why more than two of something cannot be outside of time. Then again, perhaps god and photon are two words for the same reality ?

The point of my OP was to call attention to what I find to be an interesting conjunction of C. S. Lewis concerning time and god and knowledge--then I expand the idea to space and origin of universe M-Theory. I am still not convinced that Lewis would put god outside time but inside space, which was the thought of Pamela.

[pamela]

For Lewis, God is outside of time because time is meaningless to God.For God everything is in the present and in the presence of God, therefore God would be inside of space

[Rade]

Originally Posted by pamela

For Lewis, God is outside of time because time is meaningless to God.For God everything is in the present and in the presence of God, therefore God would be inside of space

Thanks, but it is the comment in red that is concern to me. My concept of space follows that of Aristotle and thus the 'present', and 'everything in it' differs from 'space'. Thus, if for God there is only the 'present', then for God space also would be meaningless, same as time is meaningless. Now, if Einstein is correct and time and space are two aspects of the same concept (space-time), then it flows logically that both space and time are meaningless to God.

[Michael Mooney]

Originally Posted by Rade

Thanks, but it is the comment in red that is concern to me. My concept of space follows that of Aristotle and thus the 'present', and 'everything in it' differs from 'space'. Thus, if for God there is only the 'present', then for God space also would be meaningless, same as time is meaningless. Now, if Einstein is correct and time and space are two aspects of the same concept (space-time), then it flows logically that both space and time are meaningless to God.

All of the above depends on who you think god is (or not) and what you think "the present" *IS*, other than now... as in always now...
and what you think space is as an entity different than the "time" entity. (Both your intrinsic assumptions.)

Meaning is always relative to the subject for whom the concept has meaning. (This is psychological relativity... and it always hold true.)

So your meanings for all above concepts will most likely, speaking as a psychologist, blind you to any other meanings... like space as emptiness... nothingness, and time as "duration" of any event.

Good evening.
Michael

[pamela]

Originally Posted by Rade

Thanks, but it is the comment in red that is concern to me. My concept of space follows that of Aristotle and thus the 'present', and 'everything in it' differs from 'space'. Thus, if for God there is only the 'present', then for God space also would be meaningless, same as time is meaningless. Now, if Einstein is correct and time and space are two aspects of the same concept (space-time), then it flows logically that both space and time are meaningless to God.

lewis looks at time as being only a unit of measure and therefore it is only meaningful to man.The realm of space is all encompassing and is separate from the concept of time

rade, please expound on the red

[Rade]

Originally Posted by pamela

rade, please expound on the red

Space = that which is intermediate between existents (things that exist). Existents exist within a moment (the present). Now, according to Lewis, for God, there is only the moment. Time = that which is intermediate between moments. It then follows from these definitions that what exists in the moment is outside space-time.

[Rade]

Originally Posted by Michael Mooney

All of the above depends on who you think god is...

True, but my OP was in relation to who C.S. Lewis thinks God is...so sure, all the "meanings" being discussed here are relative to the OP statement about Lewis' concept of God. My meanings of time and space come from my understanding (or lack of) what Aristotle had to say about them. In reading your post I did not pick up on whether or not you agree with Lewis or Aristotle about the OP topic of "what God knows". Of course, if you do not believe in God, this thread has no meaning whatsoever.

[watcher]

Originally Posted by Rade

Space = that which is intermediate between existents (things that exist). Existents exist within a moment (the present). Now, according to Lewis, for God, there is only the moment. Time = that which is intermediate between moments. It then follows from these definitions that what exists in the moment is outside space-time.

"moment is an illusive concept. yes you can say for god to stay in the moment only while each moment flows as time , god must be outside of it,

but in the same vein, i can also say that god to be in a moment to moment flow in time must be also in time.

ergo, these notions allow god to be both transcendent and immanent with regards to time. but then again, if time is just an "object" of human perception, it has an illusory nature, so to speak of inside or outside of time is also purely based on our imagination.