Yet another reason Christianity makes no sense.

[pamela]

Originally Posted by Turtle

and jesus said, : Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. ~matthew 5:17

that was cherry picking one line turtle. It was preceded by the beatitudes and goes on to say do not murder

[alexander]

Originally Posted by Pamela

Seems like the Catholic church would want the hate to dissipate.

It would seem so, but how do you dissipate hate if you encourage the behavior passively? It's like if you know your kid in school is a bully, and you are like, it's ok, we'll just join you to a school where it's ok to bully...

Also for the record, i am not disputing anyone's personal beliefs, but this is just something that drives me up the wall, how can you stand for one thing, and do completely the opposite?

Originally Posted by moon

The idea of killing anyone who is not of god pretty much permeates the entire bible

Well, sure, by the hand of god, but we are not to decide who is worthy and who is not, all are equal before god (dont recall exactly where the quote is from)

I include them both when i say Bible.

thank you, so do I...

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.

i'm not reading anything there that it is up to man to do this, in none of that, this is how we have radicalist anythings in this world, that constantly take crap a step further. Another problem i find is mistranslation from Hebrew, every now and again you find some info on translation inaccuracies in the bible, and you can't help to think that there are people that follow that very thing wrongly, because of the mistranslation...

[alexander]

And you better not see your brothers ass either

well i keep my animals in the shed, you better not sneak in there just to look at my donkey, brotha

yeah, you are coming in for a drink dammit, in pam's case, probably a few drinks then coffee, then sleep, then more coffee, then more drinks then more coffee, then more drinks then sleep again, possibly......

[pamela]

two chicks

Ruth 1:14, referring to the relationship between Ruth and Naomi, mentions that "Ruth clave onto her." (KJV) The Hebrew word translated here as "clave" is identical to that used in the description of a heterosexual marriage in Genesis 2:24: " Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." (KJV

two dudes

Samuel 18:1
"...Jonathan became one in spirit with David and he loved him as himself." (NIV)

"...the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul" (KJV)

daniel 1:9
Now God had brought Daniel into favor and tender love with the prince of the eunuchs" (KJV)

don't see where these people were stoned and yes Alex, much has been changed from the original hebrew

[pamela]

Originally Posted by alexander

well i keep my animals in the shed, you better not sneak in there just to look at my donkey, brotha

yeah, you are coming in for a drink dammit, in pam's case, probably a few drinks then coffee, then sleep, then more coffee, then more drinks then more coffee, then more drinks then sleep again, possibly......

sleep?

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by alexander

...Well, sure, by the hand of god, but we are not to decide who is worthy and who is not, all are equal before god (dont recall exactly where the quote is from)

erhm...not actually, or...well, not if god told you, or told your best bud or dad or someone you heard about, to do it and you decide that's good enough for you. didn't aaron loose his rod because he disobeyed what moses said god said and didn't kill some women & children of one of the tribes they were ordered by the big guy to wipe out? is that exodus somewhere? so much contradiction, so little time.

off with their heads!

[Qfwfq]

Specific churches are often incoherent and in contradiction of their original sources, but how does this mean that Christianity itself doesn't make sense?

Originally Posted by Moontanman

And you better not see your brothers ass either

Gee Moon, as well as the obvious fact that the ass in question is a חמור, I would note that by similar cherry picking one could even claim the Bible preaches atheism!

Deu 22:4 Thou shalt not see thy brother's ass or his ox fall down by the way, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt surely help him to lift [them] up again.

Originally Posted by pamela

don't see where these people were stoned

I might agree about the two chicks by what you say, except it seems very much like דבק means embrace in that instance. I'm a lot less sure about the dudes.

In the first case it's clearly a spiritual thing and besides, how could a dude do that naughty little kind of a thing with his own self, and even with his own soul?

In the second, perhaps a castrate just doesn't count as a man?

[pamela]

well Q, with all things of this nature, it is left to subjective conjecture. It is easy to dig up anything that would be negative concerning religious beliefs, but why ignore the positive? The two dudes shared an intimacy of sorts, key point being here- love. I reckon it's not so much about the action but about the thought and intent of the heart. Too often people would rather bash someone based upon action and their own personal views and fears, than to look at the picture in it's entirety. People do love people and sometimes that falls into same sex relationships. The point is love. I never found in the Bible where God was nasty to these people nor if they had been stoned. But what i did find, were a few examples of what it is like to be human and to love. I would rather look for those things that would suggest love for one another than to dredge up the hate and fuel the fire that keeps mankind in a downward spiral of pain , fear and hatred

[Qfwfq]

Certainly! I mean Christ was always preaching to love everybody, even thine own enemy etc. so he wasn't stoning folks for it. But he was typically not talking about those little thingies, in the original text of the Gospels the word was usually ἀγαπάω which means to be fond of, or to be full of and exhibit good will.

Sex was usually referred to in other ways in those books. Basically we'd need to find examples that would constitute homosexuality, like the one already quoted: lie with a man as with a woman. Are there other ones, that weren't condemned?

[modest]

Originally Posted by pamela

two chicks

There's nothing sexual in either Ruth 1:14 or Genesis 2:24. The Hebrew dabaq or 'cleave' is most often used throughout the Hebrew bible in reference to the relationship between man and God such as Jos 23:8 "But cleave unto the LORD your God...", but also frequently with rather mundane things like a person's tongue sticking to the roof of their mouth (Psa 137:6) or when two groups of people become allies (Isa 14:1).

Originally Posted by pamela

two dudes

Again, the first implies nothing sexual any more than Jesus loving his disciples implies something untoward.

The case of Daniel 1:9 is kind of interesting. The english phrase is "tender love". In Hebrew this is a single word rather than 2: racham or רחם. It was translated by King James' scholars (who, by the way, did a damn fine job considering all the crap they take today about the bible being mistranslated) as these many different things: mercy, compassion, womb, bowels, pity, damsel, tender love. It might seem odd that the same word can mean womb and compassion and we might wonder what is really going on with with the Eunuch's "womb" and bowels. But, there is a very good reason for this.

Like in Japan today, in ancient Judea the seat of human emotion was not the heart or the chest, but the belly and the bowels. It you loved someone or showed them compassion the feeling came from the lower stomach. This is why, by the way, seppuku is a lower stomach thing. But, yeah, it seems everywhere throughout the Hebrew bible the word is used entirely non-sexually but rather just to convey mercy or compassion or the body part in a non-sexual way. For example: Psa. 25:6 "Remember, O LORD, thy tender mercies and thy loving kindness; for they have been ever of old" or Gen 43:30 "And Joseph made haste; for his bowels did yearn upon his brother: and he sought to weep; and he entered into chamber, and wept there." [here, it should be clear, "yearning bowels" are equivalent to the modern phrase "aching heart"]

So, I don't think it would be proper to make Dan. 1:9 the one instance where something sexual is implied. It seems simply to be a deep emotional connection was forged between the two.

Originally Posted by pamela

People do love people and sometimes that falls into same sex relationships.

Right, and there's nothing wrong with the love in the bible or in the Church today. The problem (resulting in death) outlined in the bible is the act—the sexual act.

Originally Posted by pamela

I never found in the Bible where God was nasty to these people nor if they had been stoned.

Where God was nasty to homosexuals? Look no further than Sodom.

Originally Posted by pamela

But what i did find, were a few examples of what it is like to be human and to love

Jesus was clearly a loving fella (or, at least, portrayed that way). But, if you've ever honestly read the old testament of the bible you will find that Jehovah, Elohim, the God of Abraham, is the the most cruel, vindictive, jealous, and ruthless of creatures. He regularly killed children—regularly wiped out whole nations out of anger. Jesus detracts none of it and neither does the Christian church today.

~modest