[sanctus]

Those people you talk about reflect just one aspect of human nature: a big majority of people is scared to be different from the majority of the society, so they go to church and say they believe just not to stand out...

[eMTee]

("A COUNTRY WITHOUT AN ARMY IS LIKE A FISH WITHOUT A BIKE!!!") what kind of "bike" are you refering to?

Originally Posted by sanctus

Those people you talk about reflect just one aspect of human nature: a big majority of people is scared to be different from the majority of the society, so they go to church and say they believe just not to stand out...

I see many who do just the oposite in order not to stand out.

saying you are a christian.
going to church
being active in charity, the comunity or church
living a moral life
standing up for what is right
preaching the Bible.

Acording to the Bible, do all these things make one a Christian, or achieve salvaton? No, if somone base their salvation on these things, they will be hopelessly lost. The Bible doesn't teach "Heaven threw good works". Many and most people who clam themselves, base it on "good works"..and they do not even try.

[adnaan]

Well.. if you think about it.. for how many times the bible has been modernized.. it kind of makes you feel that you shouldn't believe in it anymore.. because when people modernize, from the current translation interpretation... they may and probably did change it totally..

that is a probable reason why there is alot of contradictions in the Bible anywayz..

It seems that Islam is the largest growing religion out there.. now if you havent tried reading the Quran you should probably try it out.. its very weird.. anywayz..

I have said this in another thread but im going to say this again.. people have told me that there has been scientific miracles recorded in the Bible and Quran, that have scientific statements which have been said 1000s of years ago.. and that yet.. has just been discovered currently... tell me what you think about that.. how would it be possible to know something back then without technology.. Like some muslim people told me that in the Quran, it says how it already knew about subatomic particles... etc.. they have alot more scientific stuff...

[insight]

Originally Posted by adnaan

I have said this in another thread but im going to say this again.. people have told me that there has been scientific miracles recorded in the Bible and Quran, that have scientific statements which have been said 1000s of years ago.. and that yet.. has just been discovered currently... tell me what you think about that.. how would it be possible to know something back then without technology.. Like some muslim people told me that in the Quran, it says how it already knew about subatomic particles... etc.. they have alot more scientific stuff...

i don't think this is a right understanding, it's may just a coincidence and no scientific knowledge. now can you say anything, which may turn up true in 1000 years or more? if you think like that, hmmm...it's no wisdom. religion can't be messed up with science everytime. science is a fact.

[Boerseun]

The Christian-Judeo-Islamic beliefs (and all the subsets and flavours of it) are all manifestations of the same attempt at creating a form of social order in the mid-East a couple of thousand years ago. The argument can be made that civilization would not have come to be if not for belief in the supernatural.

The fact that it is still the driving force for most of the world, including governments spending billions of tax dollars on wars directed at protecting their "God-given" freedoms etc. is just proof of how good a system it was, regardless of how dangerous it has become in the modern context.

It's a system built on fear and intimidation - if you don't do exactly what the Book says you'll burn in Hell.
It proposes to be a system built on Love, which is contradictory as far as I can see - I love you, so I'll nail my kid to a cross so that he can die for all your cock-ups.
It tries to be a system catering for human nature, but the moment you get inquisitive and eat from the Tree of Knowledge you get kicked out of Paradise.
Its a system of incest, torture, rape, witchcraft, superstition, bloodshed, racism, warfare, a total disregard for human fallibility and a system which is, to put it kindly, flat out wrong.

Jew, Christians and Muslims share the same God, the God of Abraham. If you deny this, then you better go and read up some. Ever since the time of Abraham, these three branches couldn't see eye-to-eye. The Christians believe that Jesus is the saviour - but the Muslims see Jesus as just another prophet, although they do reckon he was a bit brighter than most. The Jews don't deny the fact that there's a saviour, they just believe He's still on His way and that Jesus wasn't It. Which one of these three - the Jews, the Christians, or the Muslims, can lay claim to being the only True Religion, seeing as, by definition, there can be only one?

Can we really be so arrogant as to assume that "we" are right, and all others are wrong? What if we're wrong? What if you die, and the next moment you reincarnate as a slug, and it turns out the Hindus were right, after all? How many wars have been started because of this error in reason? Can we blame the Muslims in the mid-East for hating everything that smells like a Christian, if we don't give them the benefit of the doubt as far as religious commitment goes? Can we blame them for being totally pissed off because we won't allow their women to wear their veils seeing as they might hide bombs underneath - regardless of the fact that wearing a veil is prescribed in the Q'uran? How much respect should they have for us, if we have absolutely no respect for them? And can we blame them if they have no respect for us?

And to think that we, the children of Abraham, sat around at the same campfire in the desert years ago, shooting the breeze and having fun - until some idiot came with a different interpretation of The Word. And ever since then, so many thousands of years later, we've been blinded by a thousand odd pages' worth of absolute mindless crap. And, as Mr. Bush will testify, it goes to the highest echelons of power.

Stupid is as stupid does. If the voices in your head tells you to take your son up the mountain and sacrifice him, by all means - do it.

If the Catholics have more or less Books in their Bible than the rest of the Christian world, good on them - just keep in mind what the final instructions in Revelations tells you. Change any single word in this Book, add to it or subtract from it, and you'll burn in Hell. So - if they can disregard this, how much respect have they got for the rest of it? Do they add, remove, chop and change to suit their requirements at the time? I have actually elaborated on this in another thread, so I won't go into it here.

Right - that's me for tonight. As far as I'm concerned, read the Bible - by all means. Just see it for what it is. If you want Instruction with a capital "I", you can start off with a couple of Darwin's books.

[adnaan]

YEs.. i have read the bible.. well parts of the bible.. and it really doesnt interest me one bit.. because its soo unbelievable in some areas.. a bit fairy tale like..
but the Quran is a bit more confusing.. as my muslim friend has been telling me..
lemme show you people what this guy has been showing me...

In Quran it talks about the creation of man from sperm....oh yeah.. and when it says WE.. as you learn in english.. "We" in these sentences is a royal pural given to anything "great" example "God"

It is We Who have created you. Why, then, do you not accept the truth? Have you ever considered that [seed] which you emit? Is it you who create it? Or are We the Creator? (Qur'an, 56:57-59)

Does man reckon he will be left uncontrolled [without purpose]? Was he not once a drop of ejected semen? (Qur'an, 75:36-37)

We created man from a mingled drop to test him, and We made him hearing and seeing. (Qur'an, 76:2)

He has created both sexes, male and female from a drop of semen which has been ejected. (Qur'an, 53:45-46)

Was he not a drop of ejaculated sperm, then a blood-clot which He created and shaped, making from it both sexes, male and female? (Qur'an, 75:37-39)

I donno about you guys.. but this muslim guy seems convincing to me.. and im just sharing info... tell me your opinion..!

[eMTee]

Originally Posted by adnaan

I have said this in another thread but im going to say this again.. people have told me that there has been scientific miracles recorded in the Bible and Quran, that have scientific statements which have been said 1000s of years ago.. and that yet.. has just been discovered currently... tell me what you think about that.. how would it be possible to know something back then without technology.. Like some muslim people told me that in the Quran, it says how it already knew about subatomic particles... etc.. they have alot more scientific stuff...

..people have told me that there has been scientific miracles recorded in the Bible and Quran, that have scientific statements which have been said 1000s of years ago.. and that yet.. has just been discovered currently... tell me what you think about that..

For one, these miracles cannot be explained away scientificaly. that is the whole point of miracles. But threw geological evidence (which has strong suport for the Bible's claims) they have found that the Bible can be considered acurate. The Qu'ran has several copies of the Bible's textual content in it..as well as I think other beliefs..so sure the Qu'ran has the same evidence.

how would it be possible to know something back then without technology.. Like some muslim people told me that in the Quran, it says how it already knew about subatomic particles... etc.. they have alot more scientific stuff...

Many portions of scripture can be found in the Qu'ran on this subject as well.
The Qu'ran was also written after the Bible.

The reason They knew so much can only be explained in one way..just a deep down fealing? no, word from God? more likely

[eMTee]

Originally Posted by Boerseun

Can we really be so arrogant as to assume that "we" are right, and all others are wrong? What if we're wrong? What if you die, and the next moment you reincarnate as a slug, and it turns out the Hindus were right, after all?

Well..if that happens, What harm did I do in preaching Christianity and the Bible to you all?..and what is the loss that I gained in not believing in reincanation?

In that question you ask me and any other person, you have to ask the same thing to yourself.

What if you Died and found out that the Christians where right, and you found yourself burning in Hell for the rest of eternity?

When you say that God in the Bible is full of hate and not love...I notice that you do not do anything in your power to acualy consider what it means when you read it.

[Harzburgite]

Originally Posted by adnaan

Like some muslim people told me that in the Quran, it says how it already knew about subatomic particles... etc.. they have alot more scientific stuff...

Ask them to tell you which Sura and verse this is in. Let us know and we can then assess that objectively.

[adnaan]

Originally Posted by Harzburgite

Ask them to tell you which Sura and verse this is in. Let us know and we can then assess that objectively.

WEll.. i asked this guy.. and he says he'll look for it.. (this is where i started laughing at him)

ANYWAYZ... he was able to give other stuff.. which im going to share..


This one shows that the expansion of the universe was already know through this verse..

And it is We Who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)


This one shows about the creation of the planet through hot smoke..

He placed firmly embedded mountains on it, towering over it, and blessed it and measured out its nourishment in it, laid out for those who seek it-all in four days. Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly or unwillingly." They both said, "We come willingly." (Qur'an, 41:10-11)


This guy says to be open minded and accepting and stuff.. and im thinking.. isnt that wat freethinkers already doo?