[Biochemist]

Originally Posted by OpenMind5

I remeber there being a story where God was going to kill someone or a city...I am not exactly sure. And one person praid god to forgive this person and not kill him/strike him down whatever. God changed his plan for the man.

The most frequently cited example of this is in Jonah. There are a couple of others as well.

[loarevalo]

We have free agency and can do whatever we please, whether is in harmony with God's will or not - this is fundamental. God will not do something for us that we can do ourselves, that is, God delegates as well to us and to those in authority to represent him here on Earth. The point is this: God has given us power to act for good, but it is by his grace that we can do this - we must ask for this help. If we ask, and is a righteous request, we will get it if we ask in faith - but we have to ask.

When we pray we don't seek to change God's will, we are only exercising our faith in Him. The question of this thread should be understood as pertaining to faith, and free will - not as pertaining to determinancy. Sometimes we forget that we too are intelligent, and have a will, and power to act. Asking God for help is recognizing our depency to him, and thus praying is a way to show humility and faith.

To return to the case of abortion: Was it God's will that she had sex, but later she didn't want the baby? I would say NO. It was the woman's will, and she's responsible for that decision. Was it meant to happen? No.

It's different: God wanted it this way AND God knew it would be this way. God's omniscience doesn't determine how we act - doesn't restrain our freedom. God's foreknowledge is simply that - a knowledge of how things will unfold.

[loarevalo]

Occasionally the Bible has passages that by their denotation contradict each other - while when interpreted under context, they are in harmony.

I can't figure out the correct meaning of the following. I can't see if they are contradicting or equivalent statements:

"He that is not with me is against me..." - Matthew 12:30
"...he that is not against us is for us." - Luke 9:50

That came into my mind when Anakin (Stars Wars Ep.III) said the same words (in Matthew) to ObiWan, and he replied back, "only Siths speak in absolutes." I love that movie partially because of the quasi-postmodernistic use of ambiguity and uncertainty as to right/wrong, truth/falsehood.

sorry to stray off topic.

[Boerseun]

There is no such thing as "God's Will".

Anything alluding to God's, or any other supernatural being's will, is a certain set of circuimstances that happens to be meaningful for the observer in either a negative or a positive way. If this specific set of circuimstances wasn't meaningful, the relationships between the specific events wouldn't have been noticed, and nobody would've been any the wiser.

The mere fact that any specific set of circuimstances as described above, is meaningful to any observer at all, is purely subjective and coincidental.

When that individual goes so far as to imagine that the universe have planned this out millennia ago, is self-justification to the n-th degree. We are far too small for anything of consequence in the universe to have a plan in any form or way with us.

[niviene]

Originally Posted by infamous

In the first place we shouldn't be praying to change Gods will, we should be praying to find comfort and peace by surrendering to his will. To be in agreement with Gods will should be the aim of every Christain.

Inf - this is more along the lines of something I can understand. It doesn't make sense to me that anyone would try to "change" it.... but something more along the lines of being able to accept whatever is in store for me makes sense. That's basically how I try to live, as it is. Whether or not it's Christian yet, well, I don't really know. I'm still questing.

[loarevalo]

If everything that is happening, or everything that is, is according to God's will, then we have no freedom of choice. In order to be free, we must be free to disobey God or to obey Him. Is it God's will that we sin? Sure, he said that we all sin, but he doesn't mean that it has to be like that. WE choose to sin, not God chooses for us.

Again, we forget that we too are living beings with inteligence, freedom of choice, power. While God is perfect, he can still feel sorrow for us. While everything is not as it should it be (that is, perfect), everything is how it must be, the only way it could be or would be - because our flaws as humans enter into the equation. God knew it would be this way, but that doesn't mean He determined it to be as so - because there are other forms of life in the Universe beside Him. And something that lives exists as an entity that acts upon, or has a certain power over things - otherwise, there is no life and no purpose.

[infamous]

Originally Posted by niviene

Inf - this is more along the lines of something I can understand. It doesn't make sense to me that anyone would try to "change" it.... but something more along the lines of being able to accept whatever is in store for me makes sense. That's basically how I try to live, as it is. Whether or not it's Christian yet, well, I don't really know. I'm still questing.

The scripture says in Math. 7:7; Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and ye shall
find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

This verse is what I understand as a good exmple of scientific inquiry. Science is in fact the study and investigation of things not yet completely understood.

There is also a saying: None is so blind as he who will not see.

Keep looking niviene, your answer is waiting and you have a promise that if you don't give-up the hunt, you'll find the answer.

[Wizdumb]

People make a lot of assumptions about God and God's will. People also seem to come up with all their ideas and beliefs about God through various religious books. There's just one problem - men wrote those books, not God. I think the Gods of current religions will die away just like the God's of old religions did.

If you really want to learn about God, don't look to religious books which do not necessarily hold any factual information about God. Instead, look around at life and the universe. You can see God and God's will in everything.

As far as what God thinks about abortion, I don't know if anyone can truly say. We just have to do what we believe in and hope for the best.

[loarevalo]

Originally Posted by infamous

The scripture says in Math. 7:7; Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and ye shall
find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you

Infamous, have you received your answer?

James 1:5 says: "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."

By what way do we understand the answer God would give us? If our desire is to know God, and know of the authenticity of the Bible, for example, how do we recognize the answer if we don't believe yet, but only have a desire to believe?

Infamous, if you have received the answer, please describe it.

[UncleAl]

Gods will.
God swill.

Therapist
The rapist.

Things are what they appear to be.