[Turtle]

Originally Posted by damocles

I don't smoke.

___My bad. I concur with your conclusion finding it material, germain, & cogent in its aspects; everything is copasetic & the geese are flying at a resonable altitude. If I were drinking I might say ID is an oxymoron, however I'll go with the more reserved observation...no wait, I am drinking. Cigarette? I have the matches.

[Turtle]

Originally Posted by damocles

I am puzzled that you would think I was silly enough to douse myself with gasoline and let myself be set on fire in support of the intelligent design hypothesis.

___Merely a 'Gedanken' experiment.
___I noticed that the illustration of a crystal lattice in post #18 appears cubic; without supporting memebers such a lattice is flexible/foldable. Much like ID, it only appears stable.

[damocles]

Originally Posted by Turtle

___Merely a 'Gedanken' experiment.
___I noticed that the illustration of a crystal lattice in post #18 appears cubic; without supporting memebers such a lattice is flexible/foldable. Much like ID, it only appears stable.

I just looked at it. You are correct.

Further proof of the polymorphism(flexibility) of crystalline structure can be found here.

http://www.accelrys.com/reference/cases/studies/an_ccdc.html

The subject molecular models tested were "organic" by the way.

And as you know(much better than I); there are more than one type of molecular lattice arrangement that results in crystals as seen in the models illustrated at the following link;(It depends on the "geometry" of "angle" of the chemical bonds. )

http://www.uncp.edu/home/mcclurem/lattice/lattice.html

Best wishes.

[questor]

if life started by abiogenesis and arose from a primordial soup, why do we have no evidence of new forms of life coming on board? have we lost the soup? when did we have the last specific creature appear, and why do we not have new ones constantly being formed?

[damocles]

Originally Posted by questor

if life started by abiogenesis and arose from a primordial soup, why do we have no evidence of new forms of life coming on board? have we lost the soup? when did we have the last specific creature appear, and why do we not have new ones constantly being formed?

1. Original conditions have ceased on Earth for which original amino acid and assorted protein molecule formation occurs.
2. Current life is intrinsically hostile to evidence of abiogenesis since that abiogenefied product is FOOD for the rest of us.

Best wishes.

[TRoutMac]

Originally Posted by damocles

1. Original conditions have ceased on Earth for which original amino acid and assorted protein molecule formation occurs.
2. Current life is intrinsically hostile to evidence of abiogenesis since that abiogenefied product is FOOD for the rest of us.

Well, that's mighty convenient, isn't it? Structure the "theory" so that it cannot be tested. I thought you were the one that's big on testing things and not letting assumptions replace empirical observation and testing. Now, suddenly, you're okay with just taking someone's word for it.

If those conditions favorable for such fairy tales never existed during a time during which humans were present to test them, then how do we know (that means empirically, no assumptions, no extrapolations) that it ever existed or that those conditions, if they existed at all, were ever able to produce life?

Secondly, what's holding up the turtle? In other words, where did the primodial soup come from?

[questor]

Damocles, i think you just generated a pile of B.S. SHAME ON YOU!

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by questor

if life started by abiogenesis and arose from a primordial soup, why do we have no evidence of new forms of life coming on board? have we lost the soup? when did we have the last specific creature appear, and why do we not have new ones constantly being formed?

Can you prove there are no new lifeforms coming on board? We keep finding life in the strangest places and maybe some of it has no genetic pedigree that we know of. In short there are no absolute answers to your questions. Science is looking for them. Some may never be answered. You can bet though that science will keep looking for them.

[C1ay]

Originally Posted by damocles

1. Original conditions have ceased on Earth for which original amino acid and assorted protein molecule formation occurs.
2. Current life is intrinsically hostile to evidence of abiogenesis since that abiogenefied product is FOOD for the rest of us.

Best wishes.

Or maybe the conditions never existed on Earth in the first place. Maybe life on Earth is the result of panspermia...

[TRoutMac]

Originally Posted by C1ay

Or maybe the conditions never existed on Earth in the first place. Maybe life on Earth is the result of panspermia...

Or, maybe it's "turtles all the way down".

It astounds me that such intelligent people can't see the abject futility of always handing the problem off to yet another "turtle". (as in "panspermia")

If your "natural explanation" that microorganisms or chemical precursors present in space were able to initiate life (the natural phenomenon being explained) on this planet, then suddenly the microorganisms and chemical precursors become the natural phenomenon that needs a natural explanation. And on it goes… and you're all quite satisfied with that "snipe hunt".

Simply amazing.