Faith and Science

[coldcreation]

Originally Posted by lindagarrette

Originally Posted by coldcreation
The designer must be found within...

What designer? The designer of what? Within what?

Hi Lindagarret,
Those are fair questions. I don't know the answer to the first two, though I think the designer is He (î). And I think He designs intelligence, or perhaps crop circles.

Within means inside of each person, each believer, within the human mind, the imagination. There, one can find anything she likes.

Boerseun, thanks.

cc

[questor]

CC, i liked your quote also. we are indeed searching for the designer within. we are searching for the designer of consciousness, DNA, life itself. if that designer exists, it probably follows that the designer of the universe also exists and is undoubtedly the same force. i don't profess to know the answer, but i do know i will embrace the truth. to paraphrase Boersun,
bring me a slice of random creation of the universe and of life, i would like to chew on it awhile.

[coldcreation]

Originally Posted by questor

CC, i liked your quote also. we are indeed searching for the designer within. we are searching for the designer of consciousness, DNA, life itself. if that designer exists, it probably follows that the designer of the universe also exists and is undoubtedly the same force. i don't profess to know the answer, but i do know i will embrace the truth. to paraphrase Boersun,
bring me a slice of random creation of the universe and of life, i would like to chew on it awhile.

Inside, or within, is not a referrence to DNA or consciousness, but to the imagination. Basically, an ID is a pure product of the imagination. But like an impossible figure (vis Möbius strip) it is not realizable outside one mind. This is the reason there is no evidence available in the environment.

You call it erroneously "force." But if that were the case a reaction or effect should be available to observation. What force besides gravity, electromagnetism, and the strong/weak nuclear forces are you considering as a possible cantidate?

Its funny too how you like to paraphrase others who discount your views.

cc

[coldcreation]

second post deleted

[HydrogenBond]

Science is sometimes indirectly based on the teachings of religion and faith. For example in the very beginning of the bible the spirit of God was brooding over the deep and he said let there be light. This story seems to indicate an empty universe, with an energy field appearing, from which matter will stem. Does this sound at all familar. With the spirit of God there before energy he is not composed of energy or matter.

Many religions believe that when one dies their immortal soul goes to heaven and their physical body is left behind to decay. Physics predicts other dimensions, energy references, and even particles that can travel faster than the speed of light. It seems to me the ancients were saying something very similar thousands of years ago. Maybe this is the base theoretical set from which theoretical insight might arise. For example, if God was composed of particles going faster than the speed of light, there is plenty of potential to create an energy reference and matter.

[questor]

CC, in your post directed to me you said:
''Inside, or within, is not a referrence to DNA or consciousness, but to the imagination. Basically, an ID is a pure product of the imagination. But like an impossible figure (vis Möbius strip) it is not realizable outside one mind. This is the reason there is no evidence available in the environment.

You call it erroneously "force." But if that were the case a reaction or effect should be available to observation. What force besides gravity, electromagnetism, and the strong/weak nuclear forces are you considering as a possible cantidate?

Its funny too how you like to paraphrase others who discount your views.''

1st paragraph--please explain how someone can have imagination without consciousness? there is evidence of ID in the environment (order), but you refuse to accept it.

2nd paragraph--call it what you will. the forces you identify have not been well explained either. all particles have not been discovered either.
are we to assume no other surprises await us?

3rd paragraph--i'm happy to entertain you.

[TheBigDog]

A small mind experiment...

Take music - something we all recognize when we hear it. But now imagine we have no ears. Could science ever prove that music exists? Even if we were completely surrounded by it, could math and observation ever prove that there was music and not just sound?

Bill

[coldcreation]

Originally Posted by webenton

A small mind experiment...

Take music - something we all recognize when we hear it. But now imagine we have no ears. Could science ever prove that music exists? Even if we were completely surrounded by it, could math and observation ever prove that there was music and not just sound?

Bill

Your experiment for small minds is irrelevent. Of course we could prove music exsits. Vibrations could be detected. The base notes would pass directly through your body. They could be recorded and visualized with any stereo system available on the market today.

We could also write music without every having heard it, or without every hearing. We could even play music on any instrument.

My point: when something is physical there is available in the environment evidence of its existence. When no evidence is available, it usually means the whatever is been sought is product of pure thought.

That is the difference with the physical and the metaphysical, with the natural and the supernatural.

cc

[hallenrm]

Am reminded of that 'million monkey" metaphor, if a million beings learn something new, the "million plus one" learns spontaneously. Is there a collective consciousness that prevades all, and manifests as God, that is the grand designer, we all are parts of it.

[coldcreation]

Originally Posted by hallenrm

Am reminded of that 'million monkey" metaphor, if a million beings learn something new, the "million plus one" learns spontaneously. Is there a collective consciousness that prevades all, and manifests as God, that is the grand designer, we all are parts of it.

This thread I thought was about faith and science. The above doctrine is all faith.

If the use of the words collective consciousness (pilfered from Jung and Freud) is supposed to related your prose to science, we're off to a bad start. You're going to need more than that.

Secondly, your question (I assume it's a question as it begins with " Is there a..." but there's no ? at the end so I'm not sure), there is no proof, evidence, or law that points to a collective consciousness that pervades all. It does not manifest itself (as God, a grand designer, as you write, or as anything else). The only manifestation I am aware of is when St. John, Jean or Juan saw an apparition of the leg of Christ in his cave in the Greek Island of Patmos, from where he would write Apocalipus.

PS. Great 'million monkey" metaphor. Hmmm

cc