[Kizzi]

1. We live in a cause/effect universe

2. Everything that exists has a cause

3. It's logically inconsistent to suggest that causes have always existed, since each cause would also have to be an effect.

4. Something eternal must exist.....'a prime mover' or 'uncaused first cause'.

This something is God

Kizzi

Note. The above proof was taken from another discussion forum

I just wanted to see what you think of the above!

[Buffy]

Originally Posted by Kizzi

1. We live in a cause/effect universe
2. Everything that exists has a cause

Cool! Some religious folks would not agree with this: they would say that many physical effects do not have physical causes. These are called miracles. Do you believe in miracles? If not, can you believe in God? If you do, then 1 and 2 are false right off the bat.

Originally Posted by Kizzi

3. It's logically inconsistent to suggest that causes have always existed, since each cause would also have to be an effect.

Why? To quote a pithy phrase, "its turtles all the way down!" There is nothing logically inconsistent with the notion that time--in reference to multi-verse theory or Hindu cyclical universes or if you're a Fred Hoyle fan, steady-state universe theory that there was no "first." Not being able to conceive of this is due to lack of imagination or dogma in my book!

Originally Posted by Kizzi

4. Something eternal must exist.....'a prime mover' or 'uncaused first cause'.

Because 3 is not shown, 4 is not certain. Moreover, even if you grant that there might be a first cause, there is the infinitely regressive question of what caused the first cause.

Originally Posted by Kizzi

This something is God

That's a nice conjecture! Some of us believe that, and others of us don't, and a common issue between the beliefs is that its really unknowable. Your argument seeks to show proof, but as I say, it does not. So we continue to not know. Does this matter? Not really: belief can be a very good thing. Don't let it cause you to think that those whose beliefs differ from your own are inferior!

Originally Posted by Kizzi

The above proof was taken from another discussion forum

We hope you have not reprinted copyrighted material in whole or without attribution in part as it violates our FAQ. Please be careful.

Cheers,
Buffy

[arkain101]

I think its pretty simple to believe in Source, god-the word for all things (absolutly all things).

For example we are a bunch of atoms and energy, all things are. Mass and energy, that all operate at different frequencies. Now where in the middle of all this do atoms and energy decide or invent what a color is, emotion is. Think about it deeply. There are so many aspects to consciousness that dont sit will with unintelligent interacting atoms and energy.