Show Me And I’ll Believe

[Kevin Wirth]

For all you evolutionists out there (esp. TORMOD)…

Here’s what you need to do to convince us that evolution is more than just a belief system.

I want you to show us the evolutionary history of a “vertebrate” mammal going all the way back to the Cambrian explosion. This means you need to start with a critter as it exists today, and then tell me who it’s ancestors were or 'must have been'. Trace it all the way back to the Cambrian explosion. I don’t care if it’s a rat or a bat, but – I want you to SHOW ME how it 'must have' happened.

And, you must do this convincingly, ie, you must describe all the changes that were made to all the systems, like skin, bone structure, chemical structure, reproductive organs, breathing, etc. for each new intermediate all along the way. And then you must describe HOW those changes occurred. And please don’t give me any baloney about how impossible it is, and I don't care to hear any excuses about why you can't do it.

If you can't do this, then fine. No problem. But then, you can stop chiding or dissing anyone for not believing in evolution.

[ughaibu]

Who do you speak for with the word "us"? I can guarantee 100% that you dont speak for me.

[Kevin Wirth]

Originally Posted by ughaibu

Who do you speak for with the word "us"? I can guarantee 100% that you dont speak for me.

Fine. Then you don't need to read this, do you...

[ughaibu]

In short, no answer.

[arkain101]

well bacteria started eating eachother, the grew bigger, and learned how to team up. so on and so forth mindless atoms and energy chaotically seeked out purpose to absorb material to create chemical reactions in their cells to generate energy to continue this senseless automaton purpose. Eventually the cells after absorbing sunlight spawned an photon sensory organ and vision began. Of course it was not necessaraly important that atoms could see but I guess thats how it goes.. Next thing you know lizards are running around on the land mating and dieng. Gamma ray bursts and particles or some kind of freak accidents caused maniuplatino of organism to continue and continue, one day a monkey came along, from a previous creature, and that monkey automaton got smarter and more conscious, of course, it is still only atomic material so its just a chaotic dance in the chaos of universe randomness giving us a temporary show to be part of. History moved on, god was invented and here we are.. automatons that know it all

Btw, this is sarcastic as I understand there is way more to life than this general evolutino description.

[Tormod]

Originally Posted by Kevin Wirth

For all you evolutionists out there (esp. TORMOD)…

Here’s what you need to do to convince us that evolution is more than just a belief system.

...bla bla...

If you can't do this, then fine. No problem. But then, you can stop chiding or dissing anyone for not believing in evolution.

Since when I have been chiding or dissing anyone for not believing in evolution?

As opposed to certain other people I am not on a crusade.

[Kevin Wirth]

Originally Posted by arkain101

well bacteria started eating eachother, the grew bigger, and learned how to team up. so on and so forth mindless atoms and energy chaotically seeked out purpose to absorb material to create chemical reactions in their cells to generate energy to continue this senseless automaton purpose. Eventually the cells after absorbing sunlight spawned an photon sensory organ and vision began. Of course it was not necessaraly important that atoms could see but I guess thats how it goes.. Next thing you know lizards are running around on the land mating and dieng. Gamma ray bursts and particles or some kind of freak accidents caused maniuplatino of organism to continue and continue, one day a monkey came along, from a previous creature, and that monkey automaton got smarter and more conscious, of course, it is still only atomic material so its just a chaotic dance in the chaos of universe randomness giving us a temporary show to be part of. History moved on, god was invented and here we are.. automatons that know it all

Btw, this is sarcastic as I understand there is way more to life than this general evolutino description.

Nice. Cute even. But I think you know what I'm looking for here. Not a fairy tale - I want to see a serious attempt at an evolutionary description with some evidence behind it.

And, it's "sought out purpose", not "seeked out purpose".

[Kevin Wirth]

Originally Posted by Tormod

Since when I have been chiding or dissing anyone for not believing in evolution?

As opposed to certain other people I am not on a crusade.

Fine, if that remark doesn't apply to you, then simply ignore it. It DOES apply, however, to others in this forum.

Anyway, you're skirting the issue TORMOD. Let's stick to the point, shall we? How 'bout that description?

[jetzeppelin]

Evolutionary data will never be sufficient enough. I should say hypotheses or speculation to be more accurate, I guess.

Evolution is not science, it is not observable or testable.

It is all derived from sheer speculation and hypotheses, based on observations in the present. Honestly I don't think evolution will ever be proven, and even if it does, that does not account for the origin of matter.

The day a scientist creates an electron, proton or neutron from nihilos, that is the day I will stop believing in a Creator.

[Tormod]

Originally Posted by Kevin Wirth

Fine, if that remark doesn't apply to you, then simply ignore it. It DOES apply, however, to others in this forum.

Anyway, you're skirting the issue TORMOD. Let's stick to the point, shall we? How 'bout that description?

I don't remember offering you a description. How about bothering to read a book about evolution? I can recommend a visit to your local library.